[spoilers] The Emperor Protects(?) Mr. Cairo PB45

[Krill]

Ah, I may have misunderstood the turns the moves occurred on.

Can I confirm the facts:

1. Zooperpooper of Vikings logged into T97 before you. He did whatever, and logged out. You logged in, played and ended turn. Then Zooperpooper of Vikings logs in ended turn, logged out, the turn rolled.
   
   
2. T98 Zooperpooper of Vikings logged in, played and ended turn. You then moved your galley past his trireme (irrelevant to this argument but to confirm: you could not see the trireme on T97?) After this, GKC logged in and declared war, and attacked the galley? I can see from PBSpy that one person played the turn, and a second log in under a different name occured after you played.

If this is the case, you would have been double moving if you retreated your galley on T99. You are under an obligation to maintain a turn order in this circumstance, for this exact reason: if you did not, you would have been depriving GKC of an opportunity to kill the galley. GKC is also unable to do as he did he, to log back in and declare war on you on T98; he has to wait until T99 to declare war in the first half, or allow you to double move him to claim the second half. The polite thing to do is send a message, as you describe, but I do not believe that he can send a message to claim the second half, only that he could send a message around turn roll to say he would be declaring war at log in and asking you to refrain from double moving him.

[Mr. Cairo]

Ah, I may have misunderstood the turns the moves occurred on.

Can I confirm the facts:

1. Zooperpooper of Vikings logged into T97 before you. He did whatever, and logged out. You logged in, played and ended turn. Then Zooperpooper of Vikings logs in ended turn, logged out, the turn rolled.
   
   
2. T98 Zooperpooper of Vikings logged in, played and ended turn. You then moved your galley past his trireme (irrelevant to this argument but to confirm: you could not see the trireme on T97?) After this, GKC logged in and declared war, and attacked the galley? I can see from PBSpy that one person played the turn, and a second log in under a different name occured after you played.
   

If this is the case, you would have been double moving if you retreated your galley on T99. You are under an obligation to maintain a turn order in this circumstance, for this exact reason: if you did not, you would have been depriving GKC of an opportunity to kill the galley. GKC is also unable to do as he did he, to log back in and declare war on you on T98; he has to wait until T99 to declare war in the first half, or allow you to double move him to claim the second half. The polite thing to do is send a message, as you describe, but I do not believe that he can send a message to claim the second half, only that he could send a message around turn roll to say he would be declaring war at log in and asking you to refrain from double moving him.

It was #2 of those. And I can't remember if I saw the Trireme when I logged in. I wasn't expecting the attack in any case.

I get what you're saying about me double-moving GKC, but sometimes, if you want the second half of the turn timer, and you haven't been sticking to a turnsplit yourself beforehand, you have to let yourself be double-moved.

I say again, I am not under any obligation to maintain turnsplits with every player who might declare war on me. If that's what is expected, then every game would take forever.

[Krill]

To be clear: yes you do, in this instance, give GKC the opportunity to declare war and sink that galley. You need to replay T98 the same way.

[Mr. Cairo]

To be clear: yes you do, in this instance, give GKC the opportunity to declare war and sink that galley. You need to replay T98 the same way.

Yeah, I wasn't planning on double-moving him this time. I'd guess that GKC would have to play before me again, and sink the galley on turn 99.

But I also don't know how MS will feel about this. Could GKC not killing that galley effect the dice rolls on his attack on my city? The (second) attack that killed my Axe was fairly low odds for him (35-40% I think). If he lost that battle he might not have been able to take the city.

[Krill]

What were the orders of battle for the city attack?

[Mr. Cairo]

His Axe vs my Axe. His lost, mine was damaged, but not a lot
His Axe vs my Axe. Mine lost. Mine had the odds, but not the best odds, like I said, somewhere aroun 35-40% that MS would win.
His Axe vs my Spear. My Spear lost, obviously.

There was also a Chariot with his three Axes. If my Axe had won the second battle, and not do badly that my Spear would defend the next Axe, then he would have been able to kill my Axe with his third, but then had very low odds against my Spear. Then an Archer would have come out of the city and he probably would have had to bring reinforcements.

[Old Harry]

I agree with Krill.    Turn order rules are all to do with not double-moving to get an advantage. He didn't double-move you (Edit: with his trireme) and you didn't gain an advantage, so it looks fair to me.

The fact he did it after hitting end turn but before the turn roll doesn't really matter, because while you can do all sorts of meta-gaming about things that can change if he had to wait for a turn roll (unit production, gaining techs, etc) none of that applies in this case. Also we want to encourage people to end turn early for the good of the clock, penalising folks in this sort of case case means they then might start camping the turn timer.

Sorry.

[Mr. Cairo]

Fair enough. Like I said earlier, I don't really care enough to make a big deal out of it. In fact, I even posted in the tech thread a little while back saying it doesn't matter a whole lot and I didn't want to hold up the game. Then Krill and others started commenting and Ramk said he thought it was worthy of a reload.

I'm ok with continuing with no reload.

[Mr. Cairo]

Machinery next turn. It was delayed because losing Baal did actually hurt my economy a fair bit, since it left me with only one city off the continent for 2-commerce TRs. I also had to upgrade a Warrior to a Axe to prevent my other island city from falling to a roving Galley with at least one Axe in it.

Anyway, next turn I'll just start saving money for the foreseeable future and spending it all upgrading Archers to CKNs.
Current Army:



Also getting 2 Triremes next turn, and hopefully MS's Galleys that are wandering around will be in range of them:


He's got 4 Axes in Baal. So 2 CKNs, 2 Swords, and a Chariot should be enough if nothing changes. I haven't seen any Triremes out of MS so if he's lacking Metal Casting, I can cut Baal off from reinforcements next turn. He still hasn't explored enough to get the circumnavigation bonus so that is an advantage I have as well. His power is also flattening, and he sent me peace, so hopefully he's not investing a huge amount into this war.
Which in financial terms has got to be a loss for him already. The cost of the units required, and the increased city maintenance not only from Baal (which is far away from his capital) but from adding yet another city to his massive, currency-less, Empire. So if he's focusing on improving his economy he can't build lots of units, and if he starts to build lots of units he can't afford to tech to units that aren't vulnerable to CKNs.


Speaking of power graphs, Naufragar and SD's war is very real, and SD is getting the worse of it. He also got a Great General last turn which promptly died. I'm sending SD my spare Furs: the longer I can keep him and Naufragar fighting the longer I have to retake Baal, punish MS, and then potentially vulture off of SD's remains. If the game lasts that long.

[Krill]

Isn't this game using the 4.0.1.10 mod?