[PB25 Spoiler] General Flauros leads the Creole Calabim

[Tasunke]

DIPLOMACY UPDATE!

Elkad REFUSED my humble (if demanding) offer, and made no counter offer ...

HAK accepted my NAP

Commodore REFUSED Open Borders

Donnovan Zoi ... ACCEPTED my peace request ... will be offering Open Borders shortly


   

As you can see here ... we have defeated ... LOTS of Tririme's ... only have visibility on 2 galleys and 1 tririme remaining.
(we won every battle ... many at 90+ percent, and two at 79%)

[Krill]

Welp, that's one way to react to a beating.

[Krill]

Regarding the caravels, I believe that most of them should promote to heal to some extent, so it's really a matter of preparing to keep on killing his units, then healing up before running in to protect the galleys whilst threatening Elkads 3 coastal cities. That should force him to withdraw some units from threatening fort kick ass, and with Donovan running away with his tail between his legs, plus Gavagai dealing with HAK there's nothing stopping a push into Elkad other than Commodore deciding to invade the island again. On which note, that's a good argument for gradually (or rather as quick as possible given the constraints of wrecking Elkad) of transitioning caravels over to the east of the island. Caravels ignore OB after all, so Commodore couldn't stop you spying on him and still controlling that ocean.

[Krill]

Also, someone would go and PM MJW, because that battle is just like the shit that happened with SANCTA. Let him explain about how that was me cheating all over again.

[spacetyrantxenu]

Also, someone would go and PM MJW, because that battle is just like the shit that happened with SANCTA. Let him explain about how that was me cheating all over again.

Please, don't.

[Tasunke]

Hey Krill ... what should the unit composition be when dealing with Elkad?

And how would you operate such an invasion? I suppose you would prefer to threaten Maastricht with 2-3 galleys?

After I play the turn, perhaps you could log-in to take a look around, see if I need to move some more units onto the island, etc?

UPDATE: I've logged out, so you can take a look if ye wish

----> I've sent Elkad with a very *interesting* peace offer :P

(peace for his 3 cities bordering w/ Commodore)

[Krill]

Moar picture please.

What I'd do is wreck his triremes like you did so he can't upgrade them. He'd then have to build/slave caravels of his own after reaching Optics, which means he can't push out of his cities until he has enough to fight your stack that is sitting in his waters all at once. You'd see the build up and could then react accordingly without fear of losing units in a surprise attack.

As you say, the next phase is to push in with healthy caravels to cover galleys that move around to Leiden, threaten his far city and force him to move units over there. You also force him to defend those cities, and if you can raze it then he has only 2 cities to push naval units out of so it's really a win-win.

You need to push culture as hard as you can in Fort Kickass, because it gains the culture it produces per turn, plus 20 free culture in the tiles immediately adjacent to the city as it has popped borders to 20%. Once you gain control of the inner ring of tiles that city is safe. It's probably worthwhile whipping walls, which means trying to buy stone from someone to be able to one pop the walls. Once borders pop that freedom from attack, the additional turn to react is probably enough to work with.

The stack composition to wade into Elkads land is essentially this: too many units for his collateral to knock down in strength. Knights to fork and break him once he commits to defending a specific city, maces as high strength units and you're AGG, plus pikes for defense. The largest issue is that actually moving into his culture is a bitch because he has so many rings of culture. I think that if you control the water, the best bet is to put stuff on the north west of the island and then threaten to dump 16 units at once in front of a bunch of different cities and immediately reload. If you save gold, you can also make a run at Astronomy for Galleons to really piss Commodore off and make him obsolete the Colossus.

I don't think that you are going to have enough hammers to build the units you need to invade Elkad properly to hold the land. I'm pretty sure that you need to get him to attack once more, bait him in, then murder that stack before you attack him for real. You are also going to run into Commodore trying to opportunistically grab a bit more land on his anexed to Elkads east, which is very likely to happen if you attack Maastrict.

There is an argument that you can focus on taking Maastricht and then hold that land to open up a second front and threaten more cities, plus the naval forks can force Elkad to defend so many cities you don't need as large a stack to wade in and take Amsterdam etc. This is probably the most risky method of attack, because you put yourself and risk of a backstab from Commodore more than any other: if you go down this route you MUST have caravels in position to scout and engage an attack on the island, plus units to hold Maastricht (but you need them to defend against a reprisal from Elkad anyway).

The island is basically just not worth trying to defend right now. If Commodore wants to invade it you can't really hold it...well, you probably can, with the peace from Donovan now. It's more about making it not worth it to him: naval units plus a few more city defenders is all you need.

[Tasunke]

There isn't a lot *on* the island at the moment, per se ... however, I suppose I could put some back on there. When you say to put units on the NW of the island ... Won't it still take an extra turn to load them into the galleys? Or is it just a visible show of force? (to bring him to pull units back) ...?

I'm 1-turn finishing a Caravel in Sparta/Black Eagles, then going back to Horse Archers. I'm tempted to mostly focus on HAs in Sparta, though I am having a time of it deciding between Astronomy and Guilds.

I am 1-turning ALPHABET, and will try to get OB with Donovan and Gavagai next turn.

I have brought (nearly) all of the heavy hitters from the island onto the mainland. I had a few minor ideas on a mainland push that would involve a 1-mover stack (WEs/Catapults/Bows), and a 2 mover stack (Impis, HAs, Mace-GG and WE-GG)

I *do* think that baiting him into attacking would be preferable, but not sure exacty how to go about doing this. I suppose I must add moar pictures if you truly insist on not logging in .... perfectly fine, I just figured it could be worthwhile to see everything at least once 'all at once' so to speak.

Not sure whether to load units onto Galleys for Maastricht, or to just send out Empty-Decoy Galleys.

Also considering if I should raw-build a few new maces/bows to upgrade them to Amphibious (for the Galley attacks) ... although I'm not sure I really have enough hammers to do that. Sparta has been 1-turning HAs for now (and Caravels too, apparently), but it would be 2-turning anything melee.

I had considered Dogpiling on Gavagai, but I gave him deal offers instead. If of course he refuses the deal offers, he is leaving himself wide open, but they were fair offers so I doubt that will happen.

Caravel in Sparta will get Flanking+Nav1, and will go around the south of the Island into the Zulu/Zahn border area. I expect to at least have the opportunity to raze/capture Maastricht at some point, and I realize that those highly promoted swords could have been promoted-to-maces while on the island, but I thought leaving them there might be too risky.

I have considered the prospect of Peacing Elkad and attempting to Raze Commodore cities just to the East of Elkad, but the problem is that the logistics would be very difficult (if not impossible) without Open Borders from Elkad, which wouldn't be guaranteed. That is part of why I asked for Maastricht + the other two for peace this turn, even though I doubt that he will accept it.

If both Elkad and Donovan had accepted peace, I was probably going to dogpile either Gavagai or HAK, yet HAK accepted my NAP, so he is in the clear. That leaves (imho) either Elkad or Commodore. And for now I am going to assume that an 'informal' alliance with Elkad is all but impossible (especially with the southern NAPs of Gavagai and HAK). Yet I see a 2nd massive stack from Donovan PLACED so that I could see it, presumably, heading in the direction of Rotterdam.

So .... my GNP can be invested in either Research, Unit Upgrades, or Espionage Points. I'm thinking to upgrade those two super-swords into Maces, and to try and build a few 'Amphibious Maces' if I can. I have a Medic 2 Chariot and a Medic 1 Impi ... (yes, I realized Medic 2 might not be that useful, but afterwards I tested to see if it's adjacent effect stacks with a medic 1 on the adj tile and no, it doesn't stack). So, assuming we get some easy fights, MAYBE a regular unit can get medic 3 (assuming it isn't a GG only option). I would like for my GGs to get March next, if they get lucky in the next wars, yet I would rather field the GGs in a Cat heavy land attack than a low odds Amphibious Invasion .... which would probably depend on Donovan invading Elkad (possibly ...) -> The only other place I could possibly see them getting XP would be whilst Dogpiling Gavagai ... ish.


Production (Longbow vs Mace vs Pike vs Crossbow) -> Longbow seem to get *decent* odds vs Elephants, however an X-bow could also get odds on a Mace. HAs are well and fun, but unless we are trying to land-fork Elkad, we might need to look at our options. X-bows are slightly more expensive than LBs but are mostly more versatile.

I'm thinking WEs, Longbows, + Cats would be a cost-effective 1-mover army (+1 medic pike and a buffer pike). This would eliminate the effectiveness of the Mace (imho), without relying on a hard counter. However I *DO* have the aggressive trait, but I was thinking of perhaps investing in some C2+Amphib Maces for the attack on Maastricht, something not easily achievable without the AGG trait.

I can only build 1 unit at a time in Sparta, and its not guaranteed to be a One Turn-er each time.
My Spartan options are as follows .... Flank+Nav1 Boat, Flank2 HA, C2+Amphib Mace.

----> I think if we have even 2-3 Amphib maces it should be enough to compliment our forces, but that does take Sparta offline from Naval/Cav for quite a while ... (assuming 2t per mace)

I'm leaning towards Astronomy (vs Commodore) as being more important than GUILDS (for knights) especially since WE seem to be an effective counter vs *his* knights at least, the ones that are having to come across on galleys -> effectively limiting their 2-move ability (imho).

Ultimately I believe that (until he starts using X-bows) we should use Maces for the Galleys, and the rest on a land attack ... and that SOMEHOW we need to bait Elkad into attacking though I'm not sure how .... we should probably actually *lead* with the 1-mover stack, and keep the 2-mover stack safely at the rear-guard.

Here is wat we got right now ... asides from garrison LBs and a handful of 'attack LBs'

   

[Tasunke]

His stack 'threatening' Fort Kickass/Fort Washington

   

The 'island'

   

Our primary stack(s)

   

And Donovan's "other" army he probably gonna use on Elkad

   

Maastricht is still guarded by a 'lone' archer.

Author's Note ... a Galleon with Navigation 1 could reach Deadman's Switch ..... (in 1 turn)

[Tasunke]

Here is Elkad's ... 'Naval Blockade' ....
   

... a few more free kills next turn!


and here is ... *ahem* ... Elkad's "Army"

   


Now, I have to wonder at this point, and Krill, I'm sure you are wondering this too ... but ... WHAT BENEFIT does Elkad POSSIBLY HAVE from MAKING ME THINK that his attack his incoming next turn?

I can only assume that he is stalling, in order to better protect his coastal cities ... and for him, he simply cannot allow himself to let go of the Sea ... So, is it self-delusion? Self-pity? Is it just plain stubborn-ness?

In any case, I really HOPE that he DOES attack/raze Fort Washington next turn ... I have enough Meat there to really CHOP HIM UP GOOD if that's his plan ... and after that well .... bye bye Elkad. Still, I give him a B+ for effort .... anything other than a tempting Peace offer has to get less than an A for effort, imho ... (and gifting me just Maastricht, w/o the other two, might have actually worked, to be honest) .... but he doesn't seem to want to play the Diplomatic game ... or the "hide your navy in your cities" game ... no ... perhaps he is building some super weapon ....

(Like a NUKE or a GIANT DETH METAL ROBOT) or something? and he thinks this ploy will save him those few turns ...

well, unless he has high hopes that Commodore will attack me ... but meh, that's a boring thought. So MEH xD