February 4th, 2014, 06:45
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Yeah, we should figure that out. My preference is to keep the 2S of horse spot, and put a later city for only the fish on that little finger of land. The main reason is I'm not happy for our major city in the area to be so vulnerable - off in the corner of the continent, easily boatable by several players. Also, if we do put the main southeast city in the corner, then the city 1S of horse is pretty terrible. It would have no food resources, need a granary and lighthouse to be any good, and only even have a single forest if we were willing to take that forest away from the better corner city.
If we imbalance the cities more so the good city is 2S of horse, it's a pretty strong city that's also the one that's nicer to settle earlier, and we can throw the fish city in at any point later on as a simple but productive runt.
February 4th, 2014, 06:47
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Btw, why do you prefer - for the southern island city - to go S of fish (on the forest) rather than W of fish? Was that a holdover from before we had that many tiles revealed?
February 4th, 2014, 06:50
(This post was last modified: February 4th, 2014, 06:52 by Krill.)
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Holdover for pretty much all of them actually.
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February 4th, 2014, 07:35
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What's your current opinion, then?
February 4th, 2014, 12:05
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I'm not sure on the ideal dot map, but that's because I'm not sure of what the long term plan is. You've mentioned that you aren't sure how to deal with someone with FIN that took over their continent with knights; I thought we already discussed trying to take over a second continent with knights and galleons. So if the aim was to get to knights asap and invade someone (and then follow up with galleons?) I figure that we need to decide on what sort of dot map fits that best. I put in a different dot map for you to consider, but tbh I think it sucks except for building up more pop that we can then whip into units once Guilds and then Astro comes in. But if that is the plan then it's a reasonable upside IMO; long term doesn't matter that much if we own a second continent by T170.
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February 4th, 2014, 12:05
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Also why save gold now? I thought you'd 4 whip the market, so wouldn't it make sense to spend the gold now?
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February 4th, 2014, 12:14
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Also another point was tech path. I think that the bulb to philo is the right play here even if we are at risk of losing the religion, but I think after that there is a real choice between Calendar>IW (+3 happy and a bunch of food), or Aesthetics for SP and a bunch of civic swaps if we get Philo. Sure it means we have to tech Alpha and Med first but a religion and Theocracy means Amphib units. The other point is that Literature for HE/NE at some point would be nice but after looking at the cities I don't see much use in the HE here (we just don't have enough hpt in a single city to make much of a difference).
Still, I figure Calendar and IW are the two techs that are most important in an absolute sense; everything else is just being greedy. We could easily afford to spam cities with the Calendar happiness coming in.
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February 5th, 2014, 02:34
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(February 4th, 2014, 12:05)Krill Wrote: I'm not sure on the ideal dot map, but that's because I'm not sure of what the long term plan is. You've mentioned that you aren't sure how to deal with someone with FIN that took over their continent with knights; I thought we already discussed trying to take over a second continent with knights and galleons. So if the aim was to get to knights asap and invade someone (and then follow up with galleons?) I figure that we need to decide on what sort of dot map fits that best. I put in a different dot map for you to consider, but tbh I think it sucks except for building up more pop that we can then whip into units once Guilds and then Astro comes in. But if that is the plan then it's a reasonable upside IMO; long term doesn't matter that much if we own a second continent by T170.
Well, I wasn't wanting to plan our dotmap around this speculation, but it just got a lot more realistic.
Yup, that is a wetbandit/kuro continent.
I offered OB to wetbandit.
February 5th, 2014, 02:39
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(February 4th, 2014, 12:05)Krill Wrote: Also why save gold now? I thought you'd 4 whip the market, so wouldn't it make sense to spend the gold now?
Wasn't planning to whip the market, no. It has value as a thing to grow on that's not a unit, for now (since we have pretty much enough units to deal with garrisoning and barbs now, assuming the occasional build). Once built, a significant part of its value is the +2-3 happiness, and that would be wasted for a while with a 4-whip of it. Plus, as you've kind of pointed out, we'd be finishing it at a time we want to be teching.
February 5th, 2014, 02:57
(This post was last modified: February 5th, 2014, 02:59 by SevenSpirits.)
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(February 4th, 2014, 12:14)Krill Wrote: Also another point was tech path. I think that the bulb to philo is the right play here even if we are at risk of losing the religion, but I think after that there is a real choice between Calendar>IW (+3 happy and a bunch of food), or Aesthetics for SP and a bunch of civic swaps if we get Philo. Sure it means we have to tech Alpha and Med first but a religion and Theocracy means Amphib units. The other point is that Literature for HE/NE at some point would be nice but after looking at the cities I don't see much use in the HE here (we just don't have enough hpt in a single city to make much of a difference).
Still, I figure Calendar and IW are the two techs that are most important in an absolute sense; everything else is just being greedy. We could easily afford to spam cities with the Calendar happiness coming in.
Yeah, that's going to be a tough call. It does seem that everyone has gold, so Paya is something everyone with a religion should be eyeing - especially those with a really high tech rate, and Gaspar who went Meditation anyway and is IND too. It's also not the most sought-after wonder though (well... at least in games where there are multipliers for other wonders), and this map is rather hammer-poor. And it is of greatest value to a spiritual leader.
We may not have marble, but we do have good spots for the epics. MaA may only make 22hpt before workshops, but that's a lot more than our other cities, and is enough for 2t knights with the HE, at least. And Night Watch has a ton of food. Both of these cities were chosen with the epics in mind. However, I have to admit that chasing the wonder path when we have no marble, tons of land to expand into, and realistically speaking the worst tech rate of the contenders to win, seems bad. Better to go that way after we've settled our whole continent, I think.
After Meditation/Alphabet/Philosophy, assuming we do get the religion, I see the best followup techs as Masonry/Poly/Mono, IW, and Calendar. Then maybe aim for Civil Service? The key is we want passive benefits and improvement unlocks way more than new build options. And also, monarchy is unnecessary: we should be able to attain enough happiness without it, we don't have wines, and we will not be wanting to waste units garrisoning our big inland cities.
With regard to Great People, I can see us going mostly for merchants for trade missions. Perhaps a scientist for an academy as the first post-Philo GP would be correct, then. We can probably get one in our second 5t of caste, I guess. (I imagine we'll want to leave caste as soon as we have philosophy, to get in some whips.) Then trade missions and a golden age?
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