RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Peter of Byzantium

[regoarrarr]

When athlete parks 4 Chariots next to Paris, I predict kalin will claim ignorance.

Darrell

For what it's worth, the worker is not roading any more, it's just sitting there, and there is not a road.

We won't lose our worker as there is forest in between that road and our worker.

I'm still not sure if we want to road that 2nd turn next turn or move him over to the other side of Paris

[sunrise089]

It seems that regoarrarr has played our T54 but not reported on it. The important news is that the Athlete worker is no longer roading or standing still, but is rather chopping a forest. So it seems we have a small reprieve

Also, why is one of our warriors named "I will kill all of you?" That must have been on craaaaazy Olympic marathon.

[regoarrarr]

Turn rolled over to T54 and I played.

Ottoman worker who was roading last turn stopped roading and started chopping. Since I think that means they can't get our worker this turn, I went ahead and roaded with him.

Next turn the plan says move to the road NW of Paris but I know we had talked about moving W of Paris. Either way he can start the farm next turn.

3 of our warriors are now in Paris, Spiros is on the tile NW of Paris, and AThens is unguarded currently.

I did catch Athlete in-game and we chatted a bit. He didn't SEEM to be angling for an attack, but maybe he's just a great bluffer. Though I'm not sure how someone that was planning an attack on us would seem. Real shifty?

He said that he was real busy in real life and that Kalin had been handling most of the diplo work and he just copy and pasted into the thread (could explain their high post count traffic).

He also mentioned that they had met rome and korea, and were 2-3 turns from meeting HRE. They said that the Incas were the furthest east that they had met (to the SE of them). He had to run real quick (shifty! ) so I didn't get to talk any more

[regoarrarr]

It seems that regoarrarr has played our T54 but not reported on it. The important news is that the Athlete worker is no longer roading or standing still, but is rather chopping a forest. So it seems we have a small reprieve

Also, why is one of our warriors named "I will kill all of you?" That must have been on craaaaazy Olympic marathon.

Crosspost!

I got annoyed with having to look up olympic marathoners every time a new warrior was born. I am in the market for a new naming scheme if anyone has any ideas (and wants to up our thread post count)

Plus I thought it might serve as a deterrent to any Ottoman chariots

And his name is not "I will kill all of you?" but "I will kill all of you". It originally was "I will kill all of you - yes every last one" but it wouldn't let me put all that in

[regoarrarr]

2 long notes from athlete

First one they quoted my stuff in there - hopefully you can remember what I said and what they are saying

Hello Byzantium,

First my apologies if it seems there's any delay in our proceedings. RL has taken over for both Kalin and myself and with both of us with young children it can be hard to co-ordinate on things that are at times of smaller priority . Tonight I find it is my children who are sleeping and as such get diplomatic duties !

Let me first try and respond to each issue individually.

I guess the first thing that we were confused about was your saying in your last email that you did not want a missionary from us because it was "mutually beneficial". Now, please correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but I thought that was the whole point? I was looking for ways that we could work together, in ways that would help both of us.


It was not that we did not want a missionary but more that it is not much in the way of "compensation" as it is mutually beneficial. Of course as you mention you do have to invest the hammers into a monastery and then the missionary itself (or go to monotheism and get to Org. Rel.) but naturally that is what you will do anyway. Time is the varying factor in that equation. How quickly would you get us the missionary? Obviously if you prioritized it right now (which I somehow don't believe I'd be able to convince you to do) I believe it would set back the expansion and/or military of your civ so there are probably other priorities for you other than to spread the one true faith right at this moment!


But the impression some of the folks on the team are getting is that you are not really looking for cooperation, but instead some sort of punitive damages? But that doesn't seem to make sense? I would appreciate if you could explain that a bit more so I could take it back to the team.

I don't think punitive damages is the right term here. I think we feel given that upon our initial meeting you wanted a "long term nap" and under that negotiation tactic you then settled very aggressively towards us; that made us feel that if you really want a peaceful relationship with us you should build that trust back with us in some form of compensation (hence these negotiations). My belief in the word "compensation" used in this context could be defined as something like this: Some form of payment from you to us, that does not necessarily pay you back. By no means does it need to punish you (subtract from your civ) as well though. Hopefully that explains our stance to better your understanding but definitely feel free to ask questions. Communication will be key here I think.


The other point that you had mentioned in your email was regarding a division of the land between us. We are happy to discuss the best way to divide things up and think that it could be very fruitful, since with such an agreement, it might allow us both to focus cities in other directions.


Very glad to hear this. I think if we can come up with a fair allotment of the land it could lead into a much longer term relationship!


You may have somewhat of the advantage of us, since you have scouted towards our capital while we have not scouted as much towards yours (though we can see your borders and divine the location). As you can see, we are very boxed in - with coast to the north, the Greeks to the east, the Incans to the south and yourselves to the east. That was the major reason for us founding Paris in its current spot. As for future locations, you had mentioned wanting to settle SW of Paris. One member of our team wanted to clarify that you meant southwest (that it wasn't a typo). He was confused as to why you would want to settle lands that were so far from your capital. Obviously "southwest of Paris" can mean a lot of different things, but it looks to be about 12 tiles from your capital (e.g. the same distance between your capital and ours), which seemed far. If you did in fact mean southwest, it seems that we would also have to bring in the Incas and/or Greeeks, right? I would hate for the two of us to decide something regarding those lands only to find that the Incas or Greeks have settled in that direction.

I believe here we will need to reach an agreement before we proceed any further. I can not believe we would have to race the Inca's or Greeks to the location we seek. As mentioned in game to Rego in the brief chat we had, the Inca's are to our south east. The Greeks are also too far away as we said SW of Paris not of Athens. ***checks in game specific spot*** What we would like is to reserve the right to settle on 1 of these 3 locations:

1) 4 South, 1 Southwest of Paris
2) 3 South, 2 Southwest of Paris
3) 2 South, 3 Southwest of Paris

I believe currently # 2 is favoured by us but that may change due to circumstance. To be clear what we are asking for is the right to found on any of those 3 tiles (our choice) though if things go well and our relationship develops as we hope, when it comes time to found we would listen to concerns from Byzantine about any of the locations.


I know that you had mentioned other units besides a missionary, but here were some of our concerns with that. Let's say we give you an axe (just as an example). Then, later on, you decide to declare war on us. What happens to that axe? Is our own axe used to attack us? Does he have to sit out the war? Or be given back to us? Similarly, what if we are attacked by someone else? Can we "borrow" our axe back to help us defend? It seemed like there would be a lot of strings to any type of agreement involving a transfer of any type of military units.

Honestly we just kind of threw this one out there not thinking it a strong possibility. If you are open to it we can discuss this in detail and try and dictate how we use the unit under certain circumstances. At some mutually agreed upon point though the unit(s) would rightfully be assimilated completely into the Ottoman culture.


So, our proposal is that, should we be able to come up with an appropriate border division, we will gift you a worker, on a mutually agreed upon turn. While a worker can be used to aid in battle, it is not quite the same threat as an axe or other aggressive unit. Also, we will offer that the worker's first job will be roading between our 2 lands, to allow us (hopefully early!) access to 2 coin foreign trade routes.

This is probably more realistic then (and more wanted) then actually getting a military unit(s). Given that you are Exp. this probably interests you more as well. Perhaps we should go down this route rather than the military unit(s) as there seem to be many more complications to be discussed through the military venue.

Also since you touched on it in a 2nd e-mail re: Owen roading the tile in our 3rd ring next to your border. Kalin and I had a brief discussion regarding you're e-mail and the trade routes. I was left with the impression we were to road a path to Paris (like I said it was brief) so I do apologize for the mistake. However don't mind him now as since he's there I figure we'll nick the forest just in case your 3rd ring were to threaten it at all .

I think that has covered everything. If there are any questions you know where to find us and hopefully we can be more expedient in the future .

May the force be with you. Always. :D (just in case you've recognized our naming convention)

Athlete for A/K
Ottomans

2nd one

Greetings again Byzantium,

I thought given that we are starting to talk specifics of land arrangements we should let you know we plan on founding a city to the North of Paris along the coast. Reason I bring this up is I don't want this to be an issue down the road. Also an opportunity to remind you of something you stated in the initial e-mail to us after founding Paris.

"So you will have undoubtedly noticed that we have settled our 2nd city in your direction. We did not intend this to be an overly aggressive move towards you, but we can understand that you would have preferred us to settle in other directions. We thought long and hard about where to settle, and in the end decided on this spot. It is 6 tiles from our capital and (if I have pegged where your capital is) 5 from yours, so approximately in between us. Needless to say, we do not plan on founding any cities further towards your lands."

The key here stating you do not plan to found any cities further towards our lands. I read that to mean that the remaining land is ours so we could go plop a city down right on your capital's border (on our side of your border) and you'd be ok with that. Not that we plan on doing that but I don't believe this city should be a problem and it does leave you room for another city on the north between your capital and Paris as well.

I look forward to keeping this relationship headed down the right path.

Athlete for A/K

So they mentioned which spots SW of Paris they want to settle as well as wanting to settle the rice spot north of Paris.

Thoughts on the points we should hit in a reply?

[BobRoberts]

Can see why Marathon runners would involve a lot of wikipedia!

Why not broaden out to the heroes/villans from the classic greek/roman mythology? Lots of them...

[darrelljs]

I think we should reply something like (feel free to reword of course):

We have no problem with you settling a city on the coast, of course. However, when we said no more settlement in your direction, we meant towards the east of Paris. We're heartened that your plan left room for us to have a city as well, the situation seems very manageable. To be specific, we planned on settling due north of Paris, also on the coast. After some discussion, we feel we can move that city to the west by one tile. In the spirit of cooperation, we will also as part of this agreement acknowledge your rigth to one of the three city locations SSW of Paris. While we're reluctant to do so without seeing the juicy site first, we feel this combined agreement is the best way to move our border dispute forward.

As to the Worker, yes it had crossed our mind that we were Expansive and you were not . In fact, this might be another area of cooperation. We can provide one Worker for free as a token of friendship, but in the future we can trade Workers for other units, splitting the 25% hammer bonus down the middle. We even think trading UUs would be on the table, we both have very useful ones that are available at around the same time. The would combine to make a devastating force. With tech trading off, we belive the teams that come up with creative ways to cooperate will have the big advantage, and this idea is one we feel has merit.

Also, if you look at post 459:

Turn 55
Worker #1: Move to W of Paris, build Farm
Slider: 50% Gold

Definitely west .

Darrell

[regoarrarr]

Quick followup to Jowy

Just a quick followup. We were wondering if you had met any other civs? In talking with the Ottomans they have apparently met Korea and Rome, and are close to meeting up with HRE. We aren't sure from which direction they are, so we were wondering if you had seen any of those civs. Obviously if you do see any of their units, we would be appreciative if you could send them our way.

Do you know anything about the lay of the land to our south (your south/east)?

[regoarrarr]

Also an email to IKZ, who STILL have not responded to our letter of 11/27 grrrrr

Hey guys,

Just checking in again. You know me!

We were wondering if you might be willing to share any map knowledge that you have figured out. I don't know how far you have scouted to our west, but we'd be happy to give you an idea of the lay of the land in that direction if you could share what you have found out to our south and east.

In talking with athlete, they have met the Koreans and Romans, and are close to meeting the HRE. I am still unclear in what direction they found them, but perhaps you have already met them anyways.

It is my understanding that you are to the SE of the Ottomans - do you know who is located to our south (I guess htat would be your west or NW?)

Also - do you know how far the land goes to the east or north of the Ottomans?

I am trying to figure out the lay of the land a bit more. The ruined Zulu I think are to the SW of the Incas - so it's possible that they are the ones that (would have been) directly to our south. If so, we might want to consider closely about how much we let the Ottomans box us off there.

Though my initial feelings towards their city choices are more S of Paris, rather than SW, and that I don't really mind some of their choices (like 4S, 1SW of Paris)

[regoarrarr]

Okay T55 played



I took a gamble and have moved 2 of our warriors outside Paris to start scouting. They haven't gotten too far yet (green squares) but I'd like to have a better idea of what is in the 2 spots we're negotiating over.

Worker is in the green circle, farming.

Athens' 2 chops came in - it is at 33/150 with 45 hammers coming in this turn. I swapped back to the grass mine, but we will pick up the furs next turn with growth.

Sullla's score went from 100 to 108 2 turns ago and up to 119 this turn. Not sure what that's all about since we did not get announcement of any wonders. Similarly, Hinduism has not been founded.