[PB64] Lurking Randomly

[RefSteel]

MJMD, I'm pretty sure Commodore is still delighted with you for coming up with a working compromise and rolling the map.  At worst, he's trying to sell players of future games on the idea of going with Totestra.  But mostly he's speculating about the map with insufficient information - unaware, for instance, that he has a land bridge to his west and that there's more land to Ginger's east.  Regardless, they asked for a random-rolled map, and disagreed on how it should be generated, and you gave them one on which they all could agree.  You did so quickly and effectively, which was exactly what they hoped for, and I think Commodore and all the other players are glad of it!

[Mjmd]

Thanks Ref. I do think in addition to the one you put in the set up thread with the map I posted that people can be persuaded why Totestra is probably not the way to go.....

I do want to also throw out there that if anyone wants to do a random map again that the map maker should get a little bit of leeway. IE a 90+% natural map with a small # of changes the map maker thinks make things more fair and interesting.

Anyone read Elimist? Where his original race had a civ game where the goal was to make the smallest change for the greatest outcome. That kind of thing.

[Mjmd]

Just for my own notes 1st settler timings either I've simmed or player has

Amica (I simmed) - T35
Gav - T36
Nauf -T 37
Commodore (I simmed) - T40

So despite Amica's / ded lurker cadre thinking they have a bad start, they actually have the fastest. I imagine Imp SD & Ginger might get faster of course.

I do really think the key to Commodores start is to avoid building a 2nd worker / a galley and settle 3 mainland cities first (the 3rd settle / 4th city isn't exciting as it has 2nd ring clam, but eh)

[Krill]

Rushing out cities is a fools game, low yield land requires maximizing efficiency.

Unless Com plants for food, settlers are of limited value. I suspect granary before settler will give better output given his high happy cap and need for 4 pop to work tiles.

[Mjmd]

I redid Commodores start and I still like 2 settlers before granaries as there are two cities with 1st ring food, but then there is pretty good timing to go gran in capital so it finishes at size 6 for 6>3 settler whip. Doing so allowed me to not build a 2nd worker in 2nd city and instead also built a granary there. So 4th city is delayed to T69, but has two granary's up (to note I also fit in a 2 pop axe whip for realistic sake). 3rd city 1 pop whipped 2nd worker. I think this would lead to a more explosive expansion after. Something like 2nd city whipping a galley and then capital producing another settler.

Another problem with his start is it was tricky for me to even get 1 warrior out, so you have to to be watching where units are and he probably should keep scout at one end.

[Mjmd]

Ginger()
Well, my copper is in a shitty spot. 
Need a border pop to get it, so I'm teching Mysticism now

1) he could just wait for T50 border pop.
2) The other obvioius play is to make two cities out of that area. The copper city wouldn't be coastal for GLH (if he goes for), but it fits more cities in.
3) I could have left him without copper  . BTW 5/6 players didn't naturally have copper anywhere close.

[Mjmd]

Just for Amica's sake my opening was 1 worker instead of 2. I actually didn't settle that northern clam until 4th because of the hills and I didn't consider settling on the easternmost tip for initial trade. Seems fine.

I am curious about the mine being built instead of chopping a work boat out for capital clam.

[Mjmd]

Nauf, "What am I doing with this extra worker"

Also Nauf, "I'm not settling for a new food resource and btw I built a road towards an at best T150 filler city instead of my copper corn city that would also have helped a chop". 

But ya not having a plains hill start definitely slowed settling down as well as map generating loving fish & AH starts.

Its interesting Commodore improving the copper over chopping out a settler at 2 after whipping worker. Eyeballing it doesn't look THAT much slower and saves a forest. But on the other hand what are forests for if not to go faster!

[Mjmd]

I am hoping that the jungle belt above Nauf ends up being contested by Nauf, Amica, and Commodore. Its easily some of the best on the map once its unjungled so hoping for some good fighting 

[Thoth]

Chopping forests doesn't let you build axes. Improving copper does.