EitB 0010 Wishlist/Progress

[NobleHelium]

Heroes do not get improved lair results.

[Tasunke]

at least in base FFH2, they do get improved results ...

Or rather, the results don't change, but they have a better chance of getting a "good" result. You see what I am saying?

Iirc, a lv 1 hero acts like a normal level 7 unit ... where higher level means greater chance to get "good" and also to not get a "superbad" result.

I think only level 1 units can get an instant death upon lair exploration.

[NobleHelium]

Heroes do not have a better chance of getting a good result in base FFH. A level 1 hero has the same odds as a level 1 nonhero.

[Tasunke]

If this is true, then that would be why I couldn't isolate it. Still ... heroes are "supposed" to get better results.

Youre not going to say level doesn't matter next, are ye?

[Druxee]

Problem with Lich being moved to Malevolent Designs: Agnostic civs cannot get liches. Seems a bit unfair.

[Tasunke]

Hmm ... that is a good point.

I wonder what is a happy medium? Needs Tower of Necromancy to cast spell?

[flugauto]

"Hyborem's Whisper" doesn't work right. The city doesn't get "Demonic Citizens". Or is it how it should work?

[Tasunke]

Perceived Issue:

Cities gained in diplomacy don't get Demonic Citizens(I haven't tested this in EitB yet). Hyborem's whisper cities do not seem to either(earlier poster)

Preference:

Honestly when it comes to Hyborem *all* cities probably SHOULD get demonic citizens, but I suppose its merely a matter of personal taste.


My proposal

> new cities of course get all their bonuses, naturally

> gifted cities, while perhaps not getting the other bonuses, should at LEAST get demonic citizens. This includes city-gain from Hyborem's Whisper.

My reasoning

> I say this primarily due to consistency with the fallow trait, as well as the AI changes that have been made to Hyborem. If Hyborem AI is supposed to avoid all health and happy buildings (when they produce no other output), then I should think that we should not introduce any exceptions to that rule. Especially when it does not seem to add much strategic value to the game.

Possible solutions

> when Infernal gains a city, it should be checked for Demonic citizens. If it has it, do nothing, if it doesn't have it, add demonic citizens. Hopefully this check should be possible with spell gained and diplomatically gained cities.

[Tasunke]

Rehash of my earlier Grigori proposal.

Proposal

> Adventurer's should not cost gold to upgrade

Reasoning

> Adventurer's are great people. Great people do not require investment to become 'useful' they simply *are* useful. In both cases tech (or other terms of civ advancement, such as cities) will determine the utility of the GP, but ALL GP are useful directly out of the gate. At the moment, adventurer's require an INVESTMENT to become useful. a strength 2, promotionless adventurer does nothing in terms of utiity, other than, perhaps, as a 0exp non-poison goblin that cannot upgrade to a wolf rider.

Therefore adventurers, currently, break the *immediate utility* rule. That is my reasoning for giving them free upgrades.

Possible Solutions

> extra promotion for Adventurers labelled "Adventurer"

Like the Great General promotion in BTS, this promotion would make all upgrades free. Unlike the Great General promotion in BTS, this promotion would not unlock additional promotions unless it was deemed appropriate by the community.

This would result in the Adventurers starting with at least 2 base promotions. The Heroic promotion, and the Adventurer promotion.

[Sareln]

3 interesting questions, with my first thoughts in spoilers. How would you answer these questions?

Question 1:

Where and how would you slot liches onto the tech tree? They're basically another set of Archmagi that need to have Death I, Death II, and Death III. Not as versatile, but still plenty powerful. Currently the Lich spell is unlocked with Malevolent Designs, a tech that is really only available to Ashen Veil and Octopus Overlord players. As an added wrench, should Agnostic, Evil Civilizations be able to build (upgrade to) Liches?

I think the cleanest fix is to move the lich spell enabling tech from Malevolent Designs to Divine Essence. This means that if you want both Archmagi and Liches you'll need to have slogged through both the Arcane and Divine sets of the tech tree.

Question 2:

The Tower of Divination is a national wonder which grants a free tech on completion. This works fine in single-player games where the player does not expand his team. However, in multi-team setups, the teams share technology but each is able to build the tower for a free tech for each member of the team. A very powerful option. This also comes up when the player summons Basium in free for alls.

There are a couple of solutions. One is to convert the towers over to the team-project setup, where each tower can only be built once per team. This weakens the tower of divination, but weakens the other towers are their benefits only accrue to one player. A variation on this would be to make the towers give team coverage, which would strengthen the other towers.

Another possibility is to change the Tower of Divination into a world wonder. This would dramatically alter the Tower of Mastery Victory as it would mean that for any player to win a Tower of Mastery Victory, they would need to conquer the Tower of Divination. A variation of this is to change each of the Towers into a World Wonder (and maybe amplify their abilities a bit) and then have the Tower of Mastery require only one of the subtowers.

Question 3:

Players report that the back half of the religious tech tree feels a bit weird: Druids are too good compared to the High Priests, Chalid sucks, and early Beast of Agares are very strong and don't have a religious requirement!

This is more of a set of changes.

• (Nerf Druids) Change Druids to be Channeling II casters with their own spell set. If they're upgraded from other religion priests, they'll still keep their T2 priest spells, but being a druid is a very different thing from being a high priest.
  
• (Nerf Beasts) Change Beast of Agares to require both Sacrificial Altars and the Ashen Veil religion. A beast rush will still be strong, but you're going to have to commit to Veil. Another variation would be to make the Sacrificial Altar a National Wonder, so the Beast of Agares 4 pop point cost becomes very real for that city.
  
• (Buff Righteousness & Chalid) Have both Order High Priests and Chalid gain access to Pillar of Fire, but only with Righteousness.
  
• (Buff Chalid) have Chalid bless and heal his stack (using the postCombatPython option) when he fights and wins.