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[SPOILERS] Rusten prepares to face the music

BTW, If you used the save from the CFC PM (I think I recognize it) then the tech costs are wrong. Make sure to start a huge map on monarch.
It shouldn't have made a big difference. BW is in time to chop after farming anyway, but your mind might've been influenced from that point on about how long it takes to tech the follow-ups.

I will look at your sim post now. wink
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^ x-post : yes, I used that save.

t26 settler is with a single worker ? So less chops.
Going double-workers certainly is an incentive to chop more.

I think double worker is strong but I haven't run a real sim for settler first at size 3.
2x workers is very flexible and appreciable in its own right (workers following settlers, strat resources uncovered).
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I sent you an updated sandbox/save file on CFC.

I agree that double worker seems better intuitively.
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Received.

Yes, you'd need a really crazy spot for city 2 to justify settler first.

I'll run some sims tomorrow but, honestly, I think you're good for now on the micro.
There will be some land-dependent decisions (when to send workers?) but you need some scouting and dotmap, first.
How to build granaries will be most interesting. 10 hammers, 1 chop, 1 pop whip is the best deal.

Strategic thoughts ? I don't know.
Madrasa can backfill on the religious path. Gets 4 specialists slots, so a high food city for city 2 or 3 would be awesome.
--> Quick granary, sure, but not necessarily quick hired specs. I've trapped myself recently, hiring specs too early from such a city. It's often better to prolong the worker/settler duty. When to stop building worker/settlers in a wannabe GP farm is an actual question.

I'm sure you'll meet some resistance when you go down the war path.
But those things I leave up to you. Survival, conquering, so overrated ! Not my jam.

When does the actual playie-playie begin ?
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Play begins in ~2 weeks if I were to venture a guess. Could be sooner, could be later. Map not finished. They estimated 3 weeks 10ish days ago.

I agree that we're good on micro for now (but I'm not gonna hold you back). Everything starts the same with the mining-BW path anyway. The only thing missing is perhaps having a better idea of the opportunity cost of religion first. Based on feeling it won't be worth, the BW delay is very annoying, but I'll do a couple of runs with the new tech costs today.
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How big do you consider a T29 settler over a T33 one? Size 5 with double mines, ivory, corn and rice is pretty damn strong. Could also consider 1st settler before 2nd worker in that (meditation) opening, in which case the settler is not delayed. In the size 5 worker-worker-settler scenario the first city is a little delayed, but the expansion to 4-5-6 cities shouldn't be hurt.

I recommend you try some meditation first openings and mining the hills before chopping (slight wait for BW). It doesn't feel like it's that far behind. Too many possible variations for me to give a concrete example -- better if you mess around with it.

I'm not ready to give up on religion first just yet. Not with our starting techs.
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On a related note: I'd go ahead and assume that our second city will be placed on the river to the south in order to both have a trade network with capital (instant +2 commerce) and for the corn. If you look at the starting screenshot in post #2 this seems very natural. It will be almost impossible to beat. Saves a million worker turns (no roads, can stay near Mecca and chop, etc) and has incredibly fast development. I'd say that the third city is the one which depends on scouting -- it will grab copper if we don't have it already. It's only a few turns after the second anyway.

This development speaks in favour of mines IMO, as we will remove 1 tile from the city screen upon settling our 2nd city. A size 5 Mecca could work 3 riverside mines, ivory and rice for instance. Worker/settler pump for a long time. I think that's more efficient than investing into a 60 hammer granary before 2000 BC (especially with the whipping penalty from the mod). We can 1T the Oracle at some point too if the game plays suitably.
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It can also be argued that if the second city takes corn and tiles in BFC already then worker-settler-worker is superior. I need to redo sims with the expected city location in mind.
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As an addition, not an answer, a religion would pop the capital's borders much earlier (10+ turns), maybe opening some tile claiming/sharing options.


You make very interesting points. Much to ponder.

Maybe, on this, : "How big do you consider a T29 settler over a T33 one? Size 5 capital with double mines"
The last point of pop in Mecca takes about 4 turns of growth, the point before takes 3 turns.
So, 4 turns earlier city for a point of pop I find acceptable.
The city tile of the new city brings 2F1H1C
New city works a mistery tile

There's a delay to work that tile, time to improve it. But if it's a 6 yield tile... I value it pretty high.
The 2F1H1C of the city tile takes longer to help produce new items, so it also incurs a form of delay, grow to size 2 first but... it's a close yield to that of a mine.

It really depends on scouting but, if there's good land, you're better off spreading production between many cities, I would think.
That also goes with the two workers : they're better off improving specials from early settlers, rather than chopping/mining.
--> "but the expansion to 4-5-6 cities shouldn't be hurt"
I sort of disagree. I think strong cities 2-3 are key to the transition to 5-6.

I agree totally @ sharing the corn being most appealing. I'm not sure it favours mining. Cities sharing food tiles with Mecca really need their own food source. Mecca wants its food real bad with 7 happies + luxuries.

"I recommend you try some meditation first openings and mining the hills before chopping"
I'll certainly do that. I'll have some time tomorrow smile
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Meditation first : turn 23 border pop in Mecca.
Ennemy scouts don't have vision over the city (hill) anymore.

What are the odds you lose the race to Buddhism ?

Med saves 3 turns over Poly. Opens up Monasteries and Missionaries. Those two items aren't early builds but they certainly can find their way into the build queues at some point.

A disadvantage of counting on Mecca's border pop to help get a better dotmap is :
Cities more spaced away from each other makes defence more difficult @ logistics.
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