[SPOILERS]PB46: (In Search of) Fine Foreign Dining, by Hannibal of England

[Krill]

But slow enough to let you quote the post here

Thanks again TBS

[Krill]

Gah.

Maximum 3hpt on T0. Workboat eot8, stall growth on worker T9 Fish hooked t10, growth@2 eot11, worker eot18. Growth@3 eot22 Warrior/scout1 eot22ish. Wheat hooked t24

If worker@size1, worker eot11, wheat improved t17, growth@2 eot19, workboat eot21, fish hooked t22. Growth@3 eot25. Warrior1 eot24.

So, because of the low food output from all of the land tiles, and the lack of hammer tiles for the workboat, it's going to be a slow start. The fastest way to play this start has to be Fishing/Mining, BW first and whip that second pop point into another worker, regrow to size 3 and then throw out a settler. Or Babylon, worker first and straight onto a garden whilst rushing to BW and ignore the fish. EXP can go fuck itself.

[Krill]

So EXP: workboat eot6, fish hooked t8, growth@2 eot10, worker eot16, growth@3 eot21, wheat hooked t22.

Worker first, eot9, wheat hooked t15, workboat eot17, growth@2 eot17, fish hooked t19, growth@3 eot21.

[Krill]

Oh shit. 5th pick. Maybe Fishing/Mining is viable?

[Krill]

BW is 174 adjusted beakers.

Settling in place gives 12 adjusted bpt, so workboat first gives BW eot14, worker first eot15. But no point in worker first and BW first. But England, Rome, Carthage or Portugal can revolt t15 and whip a worker t16. Then regrow@2 eot20 and wheat hooked t22.

So we either risk it, pick leader first, and possibly have a horrible start, or go Civ first and flex on the way back.

Civ first it is.

[Krill]

Numpty. Can't farm if no agriculture. Can chop a forest though and whip again at size 2. Have to eat a worker turn, but agri isn't completed until eoT19...well, that is quick enough to matter. So dump overflow into worker t17, dump chop T20...actually, don't need to whip...wheat hooked T25 with just 1 worker, but if we go straight into worker2 eot21, then wheat is hooked t24 and regrowth@2 eot25, growth@3 eot29 and rice hooked t26.

Ummmm...need to work on that. Probably better to grow to size 2 eot22 with the chop hammers and overflow dumped in (41/60 worker) or to use the overflow to complete a warrior or scout (7 hammers overflow, 8 hammers from city tile, chop into worker for warrior and growth@2 eot21 and 27/60 worker, worker2 due eot25 as the wheat is hooked T25 and finishes the worker). Still...that's better.

[Krill]

Following on, that gives growth@3 eot29, or delayed a turn to dump chop hammers into a settler from worker 2. Rice hooked t30. Realistically better to grow to size 4 and then single whip, because we will need warriors anyway. But even with chopping...that is growth@4 eot32, chops are on impossible tiles to make work. Probably going to need to time a double whip to get forest chops into a granary.

If Agri is due eoT19, then Wheel would be eot24 and Pottery would be around eot31. Actually...that can work. Worker1 chops t35, worker2 chops t29 and t33...but I could send worker2 to the grass hill to mine to delay. That would mean settler double whip t35, 154/100 and then finish granary eot37, foodbox would be 19/24 though, but if I put hammers into the granary during growth to size 4, the granary would complete eot36 with 12 food in the box. And that would still give 2 warriors/scouts built during growth.

Is this good? Not fantastic, but without EXP or IMP and with no good hammer tiles but a mandatory workboat first opening its pretty decent.

[Krill]

Joey, what do you think? Civ on the way down and leader on the way back? And do you still want to grab CHM?

[Krill]

Second post updated with copy of starting screenshot and a link to a tech costs spreadsheet (thank you to Seven).

[GermanJoey]

Re Sumeria: Hmmm, I wasn't aware of the new Classical KTB. I guess that helps somewhat, although it wouldn't really affect the time it takes to get the first one or two classical techs (which is what the early-REXing civs will really struggle with if they've crashed their economy). In that light, having a 45h courthouse at Writing seems absolutely nuts to me.

Re: Monogl War Elephants. War Elephants require Iron now? That is new. So, not quite rushable, but a 3-promo WE+cat stack still does not seem easily counterable. Comparing to crossbows doesn't make a lot of sense to me because Machinery costs what, like 3X HBR? It's a medieval tech. Also, XBows are -1 str and -1 promo compared to the Mongol WE in question here.

Re: drafting with America vs Greece. I see where you're coming from, but IMHO they're not comparable for this scenario. Greece needs to build 2 buildings to draft a musket with a free promo, whereas America only 1. On top of that, America's musket comes with G1 and W1, which means it can get G2 right away if it wants to. A 30h barracks is much more feasible to build on some shitty little island or filler city somewhere. I had great success with using drafting this way in PB37... the great bulk of my land units were produced this way because all of my "good" cities needed to be producing ships nonstop.

Re: CWT. Cool. My first impression of it was that it seemed kinda cannon-esque since they can actually get odds on units in the field if one doesn't delay Machinery. They could even get odds on the later-appearing Macemen in the field after one or two hits from other CWTs.