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Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

I would offer them all of WPC. But if I were them you wouldn't be able to sell that to me because we can't defend WPC regardless, so we're not actually offering them anything.
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I don't think it's scummy. We have a NAP with WPC up until T200, and we should absolutely 100% honor that. So I think that's worth discussing. If UCiv gobbled up most/all of WPC's land, they would be reasonable competitive and a helpful ally.
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Well, we would be offering either non-interference or even help in speeding along their conquest. And I wouldn't mind offering all of it, but I'd need to see what city counts would likely be after.
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Well we can't offer the latter because we have a NAP. Breaking the NAP would be scummy. Not to mention that we're going to be fucking busy defending ourselves.
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I think there's a lack of clarity on timeframe here. UCiv cannot up and attack WPC next turn or even 7-8 turns from now. I don't even know if they WANT to do that. All I'm saying is:

1) If they want some of WPC's land prior to T200, I would be willing to promise to not interfere if they help us with intel or whatever.
2) If they want us to split WPC's land with them after T200, I'd be happy to let them have most of it, but we obviously could not commit to such a war since there's a strong chance it would either be impossible or just a bad idea.

It really depends on what they want.
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True, it depends on their desires. But teams have been doing an awful job of telling us what they want. They just sit back and expect us to propose something they want like a mind-reader and then cut off all talks whenever we don't rolleye

Thought I'd at least get the ball rolling. We can try to ask them what they want, but good luck getting a straight answer out of that. I'd be shocked if they said yes or no to the questions "Would you want us to help you divide up a neighbor?" (Although if they do say yes, Apolyton is a better choice than WPC politically...) Especially if this is a team that thinks it's better to stay neutral - they may not even have a plan. They're probably waiting for someone to give them the moon and are going to languish to a 4th or 5th place finish because of it.
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I don't think we should offer them WPC's land on a platter, but we can tell them that our alliance with WPC only stretches as far as the war against the German team, and say that we have a long-term NAP with WPC after that. Nothing else has been decided. If they take that as a sign that they can gobble up WPC themselves I can live with that.

Current city counts:

RB: 31
WPC: 10
Apolyton: 19
Germans: 4
CivFr: 20
CivPlayers: 17
CFC: 20
Univers: 18

I think we can tell them that we expect the game to be decided in a space race, since the map is too large for domination, and that we do not plan to declare any more wars for conquest.

What we can offer them: OB with very high-value target cities. Happiness resources of course. A non-diplo centric game, instead focusing on good Civ play. An agreement that they can steal some techs from us. A mutual defense treaty against CFC or Apolyton, if they desire one. Anything else?

In a strange way, Univers are the team in a hypothetical anti-RB anti-WPC dogpile that could really stand to benefit from it. Apolyton would go up against our main army, and CivPlayers would be attacking right at very heavily defended cities at a tech disadvantage. Univers would have soft WPC to deal with smile

On the other hand, if CFC is also part of the dogpile, then Univers is probably the odd man out. CivFr would be the first target after us, but after that it'd be Univers.

Current Univers land (huge-ass image):

[Image: ISDG-T160-univers-land.JPG]

They have a WPC to their west, CFC to their south, and then Apolyton and CivFr to their east, but without any real border with either.
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(July 13th, 2013, 13:37)pindicator Wrote: This is incredibly scummy but I'm going to suggest it anyway: offer them the lion's share of WPC's land.

I was thinking something along the same lines if we've decided WPC have outlived their use (which seems to be the general sentiment of the team).
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As much as sacrificing WPC was an idea I floated, I DON'T like the idea of giving it to UniverCiv. My main rationale is this:

1) UniverCiv perceives this as an Anti-RB/WPC alliance of some sort.
2) It would be strange if we offered up WPC upfront to them (we should mention this after the war though).
3) WPC isn't going to matter one iota in the long run but Apolyton does.
4) It doesn't do us much good to have another 30 city civ next to us. I rather have a weak civ and replace Apolyton with a friendlier one.
5) It makes us seem weak AND desperate to offer something so drastic (especially a perceived ally) which we do not want to do.

I rather turn on the bravado hose and say we'll give them the most of Apolyton (we'll take CivPlayers) because they don't stand a chance taking on a civ twice their size. If we can get the NAP with CFC (will CFC even have rifles by then?), we should be able pull it off since its equal tech and UniverCiv has enough pop to swing the tide.

We should also inform WPC of this development and potentially trade their claim on the rest of the good German cities for us getting UniverCiv and not letting them die (assuming they even care about that).
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(July 13th, 2013, 14:46)antisocialmunky Wrote: As much as sacrificing WPC was an idea I floated, I DON'T like the idea of giving it to UniverCiv.

Nobody is suggesting this.

(July 13th, 2013, 14:46)antisocialmunky Wrote: 2) It would be strange if we offered up WPC upfront to them (we should mention this after the war though).

Or this.

(July 13th, 2013, 14:46)antisocialmunky Wrote: I rather turn on the bravado hose and say we'll give them the most of Apolyton (we'll take CivPlayers) because they don't stand a chance taking on a civ twice their size.

We don't stand a chance to conquer Apolyton when they'll have drafted rifles and we'll have Knights/Maces, so that's definitely not an option.
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