[SPOILERS - PBEM17] regoarrarr - Bismarck of Inca

[Shoot the Moon]

Thanks. That's twice now though that the most exciting thing about my thread is defense. I'd prefer to be on offense once or twice....

You're welcome :neenernee

(I've only read the last bit of your thread, it's going to take me a while to get through everyone's, but that post made my day)

[oledavy]

Still making it through the threads, but this caught my eye:

Draft of an email to oledavy when I get the next save:

Greetings oledavy of the Dutch Empire!

It's been awhile since wee talked. I understand that your Civ time may be more limited than it was a few months ago, and that most of your time is spent on Pitboss 6 or other games. It seems like the last time we talked in-depth you had decided you did not want to renew our NAP, citing the fact that you had a military and did not need to rely on a NAP as a crutch.

This has been fine for me, as I too have a military, but the times, they are a-changin.

With all that is going on in the world, over here in Inca we feel that we need some more security. It may be that you still have no plans to attack our peaceful empire. However your tech path and stack of naval units at least makes us consider the fact that you may have such plans.

As such, we have manouevered our military in order to take the following actions on T123.

A) Raze Hattin (size 6, defended by a warrior).
B) Destruction of your galleys / trireme near Hattin
C) Destruction of most of your East Indiamen hanging out near Alexandria (with the rest to be sunk over the next turn or two unless they are retreated)

In addition, over the next turn or two, I will raze or capture your two island cities to your SE (they had no garrisons last turn and are too small to draft).

I know that you are in Nationhood and are only 1 tech from Rifles. I too am in Nationhood and will have Rifling at the end of turn. You have East Indiamen, and I have Frigates. You have Airships, but I'll have them soon and have a lead in MFG production. I think technologically we are on par and a war does not benefit either of us.

So, to facilitate peace, I am willing to not take those actions, under your choice of the following conditions

1) A 20 turn NAP*, with a resource trade of Spice for Dutch choice of any spare Incan resource

2) A 20 turn NAP, with a one-time Dutch gift of two airships to Inca

3) A 50 turn NAP where Netherlands gifts the cities of Alexandria and Antioch to Inca

* - NAP defined as a non-aggression pact between our two nations, where neither will take aggressive actions towards the other one. This includes but is not limited to, outright attacks, privateering, active espionage, gifting units to a 3rd powers that are used to attack the power, allowing a 3rd party to use your lands to attack the other, etc. NAP, if accepted, starts on my T123 and your T124 (since you play before me), so a 20 turn NAP would expire on my T142 and your T143, allowing attacks on my T143 or your T144. Open Borders stay in effect for the duration of the NAP, with no scouting (continuation of current policy)

I hope for peace, but am prepared either way. I think my terms are fair - some of my ded-lurkers wanted me to take the "Krill" path and be more aggressive (such as demanding resources or gold reparations), but I'm more interested in just getting a deal done. I should be around by chat most of the day if you want to chat. I am willing to negotiate on minor points / lengths if you'd like, but the basic framework is pretty solidly what I'm looking for

The city-gifting part would probably have made me go ballistic. Nonetheless, a first strike, had you been able to pull it off, would have probably put you in a much better position and dramatically changed the subsequent history of the game.

Shoot and I were speaking shortly after the conclusion of the Second World War, and we agreed that it was way too close for comfort. We were warring with rifles in an era where the defender had the decisive advantage, and with machine guns, railroads, and destroyers you were a tough nut to crack. Both of us lost far more units than we thought we would. Granted I have not finished reading your thread, and so it may be premature to state this, but at the end of the war, our consensus was if you either:

1. Started your mobilization a few turns earlier.
2. Reached railroads sooner.
3. Reached combustion sooner.
4. Researched assembly line.

The war would have stalemated and we never would have been able to take you out. My nightmare was that you might get to assembly line and start drafting out infantry all over the place.

[oledavy]

@oledavy if you read this, as a tip for next time. You can certainly argue that workshops are the last thing that you should be building on this map (especially when you're financial), but if you're going to build them, AT LEAST hook up your resources first!! (unplantationed sugar 2 tiles NW)

Indeed

I hadn't hooked up sugar yet because I still didn't have calender at that point. Iirc, it was the next tech I nabbed after nationalism.

[oledavy]

Fresh off a Great Wall build, Dave completed the Statue of Zeus. Next on the "crappy wonder" trifecta I suppose we shall see the Temple of Artemis?

Mostly built it for denial value since I knew I was going to be fighting at least a couple wars. Though, without ivory and being creative, it probably wasn't the wisest build. Those hammers would have been better invested in infrastructure, especially since being creative I had to build three monuments to unlock the wonder in the first place

crap crap crap crap

oledavy just told me that the recent GE was HIS!

[oledavy]

Apparently (and those of you who are following other threads probably know this better than I do), oledavy financed darrelljs to get Liberalism. darrelljs had offered me the deal but I declined because I didn't think it was a great deal.

Funny, Darrell never mentioned that

[oledavy]

Even more notable is the fact that we're keeping pace or exceeding oledavy WHO IS IN A GOLDEN AGE! Prod-wise, besides for oledavy who's in a GA, we have about double the prod of everyone else. That would be 31 AP-enhanced Jewish buildings already up with more to come.

This is about where I decided you were the bigger threat than NoSpace and that something needed to be done to prevent you from running away with the game for a priest-economy powered win. I remember opening up every turn in late July and being astounded at your GNP and MFG numbers being on top of mine during a GA, this is where I first broached Shoot and Krill with the idea of attacking you.

With the benefit of hindsight and reading all the threads, your position was not quite as ascendant as I made it out to be. Nonetheless, I still feel like the boost you got from running the religious economy and then from the SoL would have been enough to propel you into a dominant position during the industrial/modern era.

[oledavy]

For both of those screenshots I'm not "supposed" to see those staging tiles, since we agreed to not send units into the other's borders. But I figure little out and back checks are pretty par for the course with those types of agreements (though I'd be interested in other players' opinions on that).

I was wondering how you knew they were there I didn't even occur to me that you might be entering and leaving my borders to check the situation out every turn.

[Commodore]

But I figure little out and back checks are pretty par for the course with those types of agreements.

Huh, good to know.

[regoarrarr]

Huh, good to know.

LOL!

[pindicator]

Huh, good to know.

Indeed!