[SPOILERS] Isabella of Carthage, starring Ellimist, SleepingMoogle, and Nicolae

[Ellimist]

I'm sure they'll be posting detailed screenshots and reports of the conflict, but feel free to request anything you'd like to see on my end. I've noticed that the defenders in RB wars tend to slack off with their spoiler threads, and I'll try not to do that.

Well it looks like I've done exactly that, no posts in three weeks.

Things have been relatively uneventful other than losing the rest of my central cities, and I'm sure the Elementals team posted that stuff in detail. I'm working on a wacky plan to get back in the game using the Mausoleum, the Taj, and the pacifism civic, but it will rely at least somewhat on them being overconfident and/or distracted. If all goes well, I should at least be able to make them worry a little.

Other than that, this game ought to just be called soon. I'm #2 in food with half of what they have. The Colossus is helping me compete on GNP, but I'm still lagging on some infrastructure.

I'll try to do some catch up posts for the last couple weeks.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

I don't blame you

[Ellimist]

Barebones update of where I am right now:

I don't think i can really win, but I haven't lost yet. Over the past several turns, I saved up a ton of gold and have been running engineer specialists in Sirius, Canopus, and Regulus. I've started working on some infrastructure again, as well as settled 2 new cities. They've had tech visibility on me for awhile, so I let them think I was getting paper next. I didn't tech philosophy until I was ready to get Nationalism as well, and I think I'll get there before they will(I have tech visibility on them too.)

We're almost finished with Nationalism and next turn I'm adopting caste-pacifism. I'll have 3 opportunities to get an engineer over the next half dozen turns(the odds of each being a GE isn't great, but taken together, I have a shot) If I do get one, I'll rushbuild the Taj and trigger a GA. If I don't get a GE, I'll trigger a GA with 2 GPs and build the Taj in Sirius(Moai+Golden Age+Bureaucracy is nuts. Something like 65-70 hpt.) With starvation-caste-pacifism, I see the possibility of spending 36 or so more turns in golden ages.

I moved a relatively large (but offensively powerless) stack closer to my border with the Elementals last turn. I'm talking over 20 units... mostly pikemen, very few catapults, and a handful of knights. It's supposed to look threatening(yet ineffective offensively), but the goal is to make them overconfident and expecting me to make certain moves I have no intention of making. Next turn I'll add two workers and change the composition of the stack a bit. It's in a location I expect them to see with their sentry unit, but not right on the border. I have various thoughts about what to do next, but none of the plans involve attacking their cities with a giant stack of pikemen.

Even if things go reasonably well, I'm not quite sure how I'll translate it into a win. I'm so far behind on land and luxuries at this point that it's not even funny, but I intend to make a showing. I've learned a ton(I hope) from my mistakes in this game, and I'm sure there are more mistakes to be made before I reach NH/Lewwyn's skill level.

[Ellimist]

Yesssssssssssss.

The first piece of the puzzle falls neatly into place.

My odds of getting an engineer out of Canopus weren't great, but the city only needed 40 GPPs to get there. Accumulating food is more difficult at Canopus than other cities, so it was the first one up and I only lost 1 food from storage.

I'll probably put the Taj in Regulus, as it can use the culture better than the other candidates. I'll start producing more GPPs in other cities in a couple turns when the golden age goes online.

[Ellimist]

OMG how long does it take to play a freaking turn.

I can't win, sure, but at least I can have three or four 12-turn golden ages.

[Ellimist]

Btw, I'm working on a potential plan where I could take one of the border cities. I'd feint toward one of their border cities and set up some knights out of view to hit the other. Then I settle a city and it pushes back their culture(due to me still having culture in those tiles) and potentially puts their city within reach.

[Ellimist]

Okay, it doesn't look like Kuro is quite ready to end things yet, and no response from Jkaen. Personally, I don't mind playing as far as everyone else wants to, but the turn pace of this game is absurd.
Seriously. There are FOUR players and we can't manage a turn per day. Often we can't manage a full turn in 2 days. I'd rather devote my attention to a game with a more consistent clock.

Chat dump:
I messaged both Lewwyn and Noble and Lewwyn responded first.

Ellimist: hey, are you busy?
[COLOR="sienna"][b]Lewwyn: [/b][/COLOR]I'm about to leave
Lewwyn: travelling
Ellimist: k, we can talk later or maybe it'll be quick
Ellimist: What's your opinion on PBEM21 right now?
Lewwyn: It'll have to be much later
Lewwyn: I have to go get ona train for 8 hours
Ellimist: k, no problem
Ellimist: I'll summarize
Ellimist: We're getting a turn every 2-4 days
Lewwyn: XD
Ellimist: nobody has a chance of winning other than your team
Ellimist: unless you make a major blunder
Lewwyn: noble is too anal for that
Ellimist: I don't think either of the two southern teams has a chance of coming in second
Ellimist: I'm open to the idea of calling the game
Ellimist: I mean, if you prefer, I'll give it my best shot
Ellimist: I'll go down swinging, pull out all the stops as I've tried to do all along
Ellimist: but it'll be 2014 before the game actually ends
Ellimist: anyway, that's all, I just wanted to see what you thought about that
Lewwyn: Talk to Noble too yet?
Ellimist: no, and i messaged him at the same time i did you
Lewwyn: okay
Ellimist: and I haven't talked to the other two teams either
Lewwyn: have a chat with him I'll get back to you after I've arrived at my in-laws
Lewwyn: I talked to him about it
Ellimist: but I think neither of them would dispute that they're presently inferior to you and I
Lewwyn: and he was like no skin off our nose
Ellimist: you two are definitely far more skilled than I am
Ellimist: I think, from the start, my only real shot
Lewwyn: thanks for teh compliment
Ellimist: was if the other players had been skilled enough to keep you honest
Ellimist: but it feels like it's been basically one on one this whole time lol
Lewwyn: XD
Ellimist: kuro's territory still has a ton of unimproved tiles
Lewwyn: ok really gtg
Ellimist: have a nice trip
Lewwyn: I'll ttyl
Ellimist: bye

Ellimist: hey, are you busy?
NobleHelium: hey
NobleHelium: was in the shower
Ellimist: np
Ellimist: lemme email you a short chat log I just had with Lewwyn
Ellimist: then I'll get your opinion
NobleHelium: uh ok oO
Ellimist: k sent
NobleHelium: oh
NobleHelium: i predicted that you wouldn't concede
Ellimist: oh?
NobleHelium: yeah that's what i posted like five days ago
Ellimist: I don't see it as conceding, really, just admission of the way things are
Ellimist: I mean
Ellimist: I'm doing everything I can to continue challenging you
Ellimist: I expect to be in golden age for the next 36 turns
NobleHelium: well what do you mean then
Ellimist: well
Ellimist: I can't see a scenario playing out where you don't win
Ellimist: even if your vassal turned against you, it would work to your benefit
NobleHelium: well you're saying you're not conceding but you're saying we win no matter what lol
Ellimist: well
Ellimist: I guess
Ellimist: I mean
Ellimist: I wouldn't mind playing out another hundred turns or whatever
Ellimist: if it didn't take so darn long to get the turns
Ellimist: but it'll be 2014 or so by the time we finish
NobleHelium: maybe
Ellimist: anyway, if you want to play it all the way out
Ellimist: I won't take that from you
NobleHelium: i'm saying that
NobleHelium: if you're actually conceding
NobleHelium: i don't think we'd object to that
Ellimist: sure, you acn call it whatever you want
Ellimist: you come in first, we come in second
Ellimist: the others can argue about their places but I think that part is undisputed
NobleHelium: you seem to be awfully ambivalent about conceding if you're actually willing to, lol
Ellimist: when I sent my workers across your border
Ellimist: and saw your knights
NobleHelium: oh interesting
Ellimist: before you declared
Ellimist: I knew I was going to lose some cities
NobleHelium: i was wondering if you had done that
Ellimist: I was hoping I wouldn't lose so many
Ellimist: of course I did
Ellimist: that's the only reason I didn't close borders with you after Lewwyn's email
NobleHelium: for the record it is extremely annoying to repeatedly run circles around an opponent's land
NobleHelium: regardless of whether the opponent says anything
Ellimist: Kuro and Jkaen have been doing it in mine all game long basically
Ellimist: and it's never bothered me
NobleHelium: well i'm saying that it's going to piss off any opponent who actually matters
Ellimist: except when you were about to declare actually now that you mention it, I did email Jkaen
Ellimist: well, for the record
Ellimist: you guys only started to care about it
Ellimist: once you had something to hide
NobleHelium: i cared about it all the time
Ellimist: but you didn't say anything
NobleHelium: i just didn't want to come across the wrong way
Ellimist: exactly
NobleHelium: but that doesn't matter to me anymore because i'm not playing in any more diplo games
Ellimist: the fact that you cared enough to say something was information
NobleHelium: but it's only going to hurt you if you do it again
Ellimist: meh
NobleHelium: i'm just offering friendly advice for your future games
Ellimist: yeah, taken
Ellimist: I think I really only started to focus my scouts on your area
Ellimist: after your power chart achieved lunar orbit
NobleHelium: the EP thing
NobleHelium: is also going to annoy people
Ellimist: are you honestly trying to tell me
Ellimist: that you would not have attacked me if I hadn't taken precautions to determine whether you would?
NobleHelium: maybe we would have, maybe we wouldn't have
Ellimist: mhmmm
NobleHelium: but i am telling you that if you spend all your EPs on one person all game, that increases their chances of attacking you
NobleHelium: unless that guy is nakor or yuris
Ellimist: here's how that played out
Ellimist: jkaen wasn't spending any eps on me
Ellimist: kuro wasn't spending any eps on me
Ellimist: you guys were
NobleHelium: yeah, we've gone over this
Ellimist: jkaen wasn't even a remote threat to me
Ellimist: neither was kuro
NobleHelium: i'm not saying i don't believe what you said
Ellimist: i mean
Ellimist: seriously
Ellimist: in this game
NobleHelium: but i'm saying you're playing against humans and not AI
NobleHelium: we spent 2/turn on you
NobleHelium: out of 4
Ellimist: against two incompetently played civs and one which is far better than me
NobleHelium: i expected you to spend a similar amount
Ellimist: who am I going to spend it on
NobleHelium: but spending more than that is obviously aggression
NobleHelium: and people fight back sometimes if you attack them
Ellimist: meh
NobleHelium: sevenspirits learned that recently
Ellimist: i don't see it as aggressive
Ellimist: but I can see why some might
NobleHelium: that's what i mean
NobleHelium: just because you don't, doesn't mean others won't
Ellimist: yeah, I understand
NobleHelium: anyway if kuro doesn't play the turn tonight i am definitely bumping the PYFT email
NobleHelium: if you want to propose conceding we wouldn't object i don't think
Ellimist: i think my last turn I recieved
Ellimist: he sent at 7:30 am
NobleHelium: sure, something like that
Ellimist: btw, good luck in ffh-8
NobleHelium: do you know where krill spawned
Ellimist: yes, I believe I do
NobleHelium: did he spawn in such a manner that i should keep caring about the game
NobleHelium: since if he spawns next to mist there's no reason for me to care anymore
Ellimist: I don't want to give away spoilers
NobleHelium: up to you
Ellimist: but you should be able to determine where he is relatively quickly
NobleHelium: i expect to know as soon as mist gets the damn turn
Ellimist: isn't stephanos going for you too
Ellimist: I honestly don't remember, but I thought you guys posted something about that
NobleHelium: that was stephanos
NobleHelium: yes
Ellimist: at least stephanos is a wuss
NobleHelium: but we should be okay
NobleHelium: krill will destroy mist for sure
Ellimist: buboes, ars morendi, and Krill are more of a concern
NobleHelium: i would destroy mist if i spawned as hyborem next to him right now
NobleHelium: i'm not sure i'm that much more skilled than you
Ellimist: you put more effort in, I'd wager
Ellimist: and yes, you're more skilled
Ellimist: Lewwyn too
Ellimist: the only multiplayer civ games I've ever played have been on RB
NobleHelium: well i think you have two main faults
NobleHelium: you have too much of an aversion to overlapping cities
NobleHelium: and you treat humans like AIs a lot, but i've just talked about that
Ellimist: yeah
Ellimist: I think one thing about diplo
Ellimist: that doesn't make any sense to me
Ellimist: is when i see it in other games
Ellimist: and someone like parkin gets away with all that shit
Ellimist: btw are you following FFH-14?
NobleHelium: i don't understand why mist didn't put any fucking hills on the map
Ellimist: yeah, that is a bit irritating
Ellimist: conquest civic is mandatory imo
Ellimist: or at least slavery
Ellimist: btw, I had an idea for a FFH game
NobleHelium: i was thinking of joining an ffh game
Ellimist: or a concept that needs tweaking most likely
Ellimist: okay what about this
Ellimist: inspired from FFH-11 where everyone started with an adept
NobleHelium: i wasn't planning on some sort of deviant game
NobleHelium: but maybe if it's interesting
Ellimist: Everybody starts with a strength 1 flesh golem
Ellimist: or two
NobleHelium: i was looking for a relaxing similar to my skill level opponents not much sandboxing game
NobleHelium: uh
NobleHelium: a mimic would be more interesting i think
NobleHelium: eh
NobleHelium: shrug
NobleHelium: i don't think either would work
Ellimist: well a flesh golem you have to sacrifice units to make it powerful, so I don't think it would totally disrupt the early game
NobleHelium: well
NobleHelium: i would expect the flesh golem to just be ignored
NobleHelium: or at least some people would ignore it
NobleHelium: and some would not
NobleHelium: and the ones who did would come out ahead
Ellimist: well, the idea behind it
NobleHelium: i mean
Ellimist: maybe you can come up with a better implementation
NobleHelium: i might feed it some warriors that i don't want to upgrade
Ellimist: but there are a lot of interesting units that never get played because they come too late
NobleHelium: i think flesh golem is one of those "interesting in SP" ideas
NobleHelium: like barnaxus
Ellimist: because you have better spells to take with an archmage in MP
Ellimist: imo
Ellimist: which is why we never see them
NobleHelium: well that's mostly because we never see archmages in MP
Ellimist: yeah
Ellimist: and if we do
NobleHelium: body is a great line
Ellimist: true
NobleHelium: so if you did have a body 2 mage that qualified for archmage
NobleHelium: you might take it
NobleHelium: but most of the time people just use adepts
NobleHelium: and then a hero archmage
Ellimist: yeah
Ellimist: what about
Ellimist: to speed up the early game
Ellimist: everybody starts with a great scientist
Ellimist: or something like that
NobleHelium: i think you're trying too hard
NobleHelium: lol
Ellimist: lol
Ellimist: probably
Ellimist: I'm not ready for another game just yet anyway
NobleHelium: well kuro could use it for culture defense i suppose
Ellimist: I want to get back into the habit of updating my games regularly
Ellimist: first
Ellimist: but I can't get dropbox to work properly and everything else is considerably more difficult
NobleHelium: i have dropbox working on 7
NobleHelium: no idea what your issue is
Ellimist: I've tried disabling the firewall completely
Ellimist: and it doesn't help
Ellimist: firefox doesn't work either
Ellimist: i mean, both programs run just fine
NobleHelium: how does firefox not work
Ellimist: they just can't connect to anything
NobleHelium: that's like unheard of
Ellimist: yeah, I know
Ellimist: I have to use IE yuck
NobleHelium: do you not have your dns configured properly

At this point Noble helped me for about an hour trying to get my firefox/dropbox issue sorted out. We made progress and I understand more about it now than I did before, but ultimately nothing worked and the programs still can't connect.
*

NobleHelium: btw
NobleHelium: if we had asked for peace would you have accepted it?
Ellimist: when
NobleHelium: say five turns ago
Ellimist: hard to say
Ellimist: I think we're at a point in the game
Ellimist: where peace is never going to be mutually beneficial
Ellimist: i mean
Ellimist: neither of us have to worry at all about our other flank
NobleHelium: i did expect you to decline, yes
NobleHelium: that's why we didn't ask
Ellimist: well
Ellimist: I'd have evaluated
Ellimist: whether I expected to gain from 10 turns of enforced peace
Ellimist: and made a decision based on that
Ellimist: i mean
Ellimist: i can reasonably get 5 GPs very soon
Ellimist: i had 3 shots at a great engineer ready when I got mine
NobleHelium: uh i assumed peace would come with a NAP
NobleHelium: 10t of peace isn't meaningful in most cases
Ellimist: ah
Ellimist: well
Ellimist: hard to say
Ellimist: 5 turns was what... a month ago?
Ellimist: hard to remember
NobleHelium: about two weeks ago
Ellimist: ;'(
Ellimist: well
Ellimist: i might have
Ellimist: but i doubt it
Ellimist: because it's a 2 player game, basically
Ellimist: jkaen has been basically irrelevant all game
Ellimist: and kuro had a strong start but that was it
NobleHelium: kuro had an ok start
Ellimist: it seemed strong from what I could tell, but I didn't follow the demos as close as you did
NobleHelium: well i didn't pay that much attention
NobleHelium: but spamming cities is not necesssarily a strong start
Ellimist: true
Ellimist: I think he had an early academy as well
Ellimist: or several
NobleHelium: he has multiple academies
Ellimist: really, for him
Ellimist: i think the main advantage
Ellimist: was that he was the only player who didn't go for the oracle
NobleHelium: yeah that's accurate
Ellimist: but as far as I can tell
Ellimist: his primary weakness
Ellimist: has been a lack of workers
Ellimist: and not using the ones he has effectively
Ellimist: and not chopping
NobleHelium: sure
Ellimist: and not defending his critical port cities
NobleHelium: his worker usage is miserable
NobleHelium: i have this screenshot of him building a mine and a windmill on the same tile at the same time
Ellimist: lol
Ellimist: karkat was empty for ages
NobleHelium: anyway sleep
NobleHelium: night
Ellimist: good night
Ellimist: thanks for the help

*Some minor parts were also redacted due to spoiler level info of other games.


Anyway... Ultimately, it's not up to me to decide whether the game is over. It's a 4 player game, and I want any decision to be unanimous in that regard.

[Ellimist]

So I've been putting things in place to threaten Arcturus/Calcium for awhile now. I was able to extend my borders right up next to the city, but wasn't actually planning on moving on it for a little while. Then I load the save and see it defended by a single unit. One thought immediately comes to mind...



But what the hell. The game is pretty much over anyway. I don't want to go out without a fight.

I wasn't sure of exactly what the trap could be. I spotted a galleon with my northern caravel, and there were a few spots my sacrificial workers were unable to see on the land. So I only moved about half of my in-range army into the city after capture. And yes, I stupidly forgot that the game won't let me raze my own city.

I talked to Lewwyn in chat (after he played his turn) and he pretty much confirmed that most of what I put in the city is dead and the rest are almost dead.

Well played, guys. I should have trusted my instincts, but the bait(retaking one of the cities I lost) was too hard to resist. At least I won't have to pay the pacifism penalty gold for those guys any more.

Screenshots to follow. Stupid dropbox still won't connect.

I hope the big Kuro border battle resolves soon. I have a worker in the area keeping an eye on the stacks involved. I told Noble the other day that it looks like most of us are in favor of ending the game except Kuro is in favor of not playing.

[NobleHelium]

I definitely didn't have trade routes with any city besides Denebola. There was a gap in your culture along the coast.