Politics Discussion Thread (Heated Arguing Warning)

[Old Harry]

The terrorist sympathiser smear annoys me - the only way you stop terrorism is by killing all of the out-group (see Sri Lanka) or by talking to them. John Major negotiated an end to the IRA's campaign in the UK because they had legitimate grievances that, when taken seriously and addressed meant that the the terrorists no longer had community support and so the nutters who want to go around destroying things no longer had cover (a few are still around as the real IRA but they don't do much damage now) (and sure, the IRA is still around as a criminal enterprise, but that's better than a terrorist one).

I think that negotiating with terrorists is a good idea, so long as they have legitimate problems that can be solved if their more powerful opponent is willing to understand them (just paying them off is obviously a terrible idea). I'm suspicious that anyone who trots out the Never Negotiate line has a vested interest in ongoing terror.  

[Brian Shanahan]

It's true comunists just won 40% of the votes in UK? Oh man brits dont know what they want.(I lived under communism and wasnt prety at all)

No, centre left social democrats. However, the far right still picked up 42%

[Brian Shanahan]

Just so people have an understanding, the DUP propping up the Tories is like Sinn Fein propping up Labour

Thanks, I was really confused before but now its all clear.  At least use a football analogy .

Darrell

It's actually worse than what Krill says, because unlike the IRA, neither the UVF nor the UDA (two loyalist terrorist groups with very close links to the DUP) have given up on the idea of using violence to solve their problems, nor fully decommissioned their weapons (the UDA only started the process this decade, 15 years after the peace process started).

The only reason they're not killing people (aside from some infighting) is that without the support of the British state it turns out that both groups are really pants at the whole knowing which end of a gun is which stuff.

[Brian Shanahan]

Welfare fraud in the uk is estimated between 1 and 3bn pounds a year, while tax fraud is around 20-30bn a year. It's the same in most of the world (actually welfare fraud in the UK seems very high compared to other countries). Yet you mostly hear people complaining about welfare fraud, "I once knew a guy who got free stuff".

Also I'm sick of the "you can't care about the poor unless you live in a favella" argument.

£1.1bn per year welfare fraud according to DWP figures (in fact, the figure for fraud is lower than the amount that the DWP manages to underpay claimants), and tax fraud is between £50bn (HMRC who have a vested interest in undercounting tax fraud) and £120bn (independent and evidenced estimates).

[mackoti]

Welfare fraud in the uk is estimated between 1 and 3bn pounds a year, while tax fraud is around 20-30bn a year. It's the same in most of the world (actually welfare fraud in the UK seems very high compared to other countries). Yet you mostly hear people complaining about welfare fraud, "I once knew a guy who got free stuff".

Also I'm sick of the "you can't care about the poor unless you live in a favella" argument.

£1.1bn per year welfare fraud according to DWP figures (in fact, the figure for fraud is lower than the amount that the DWP manages to underpay claimants), and tax fraud is between £50bn (HMRC who have a vested interest in undercounting tax fraud) and £120bn (independent and evidenced estimates).

I am realy courious  whats tax fraud in UK?paying less, getting money back without deserving???Working on black market?

[AdrienIer]

I'd say probably lots of tax evasion, some black market and some undue tax reductions.

[Brian Shanahan]

Welfare fraud in the uk is estimated between 1 and 3bn pounds a year, while tax fraud is around 20-30bn a year. It's the same in most of the world (actually welfare fraud in the UK seems very high compared to other countries). Yet you mostly hear people complaining about welfare fraud, "I once knew a guy who got free stuff".

Also I'm sick of the "you can't care about the poor unless you live in a favella" argument.

£1.1bn per year welfare fraud according to DWP figures (in fact, the figure for fraud is lower than the amount that the DWP manages to underpay claimants), and tax fraud is between £50bn (HMRC who have a vested interest in undercounting tax fraud) and £120bn (independent and evidenced estimates).

I am realy courious  whats tax fraud in UK?paying less, getting money back without deserving???Working on black market?

Mostly offshoring income to companies with opaque ownership details in tax havens such as Jersey, the Caymans or the City of London (which, due to the continuing existence of medieval liberties, isn't actually subject to either the crown or parliament in a lot of areas, including tax law and finance).

[MJW (ya that one)]

There will be massive salt on Wednesday no matter what happens.

Not worth own post:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/...s-balance/

[MJW (ya that one)]

Queen's speech hits. I predict May will be able to BS this because DUP won't throw away the chance to stick it to SF and Corbyn and moderate Tories won't rebel because Labour put in "take control of immigration" in their platform which would cause hard Brexit anyway. But this is too close to call.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Prepare for salt!