I think you're right about England - the lack of an informed electorate (due to the media - BBC and Guardian excepted - being concentrated in the hands of a small group of special interests) combined with the dumb first-past-the-post system has led to total conformity in our political parties. I prefer the way that Germany has parties for every extreme of the political spectrum who need to work together if they want anything done rather than our tyranny of the 51% (more like 21% with our voting rates TBH)
(July 30th, 2013, 20:29)NobleHelium Wrote: I think it's more interesting that both Democracy and Communism are dead end techs. It's like, "sorry guys, you know the grand philosophical argument of the 20th century? It's all a big dead end."
But in a way they are. Or have there been any developments in govering people?
I think its pretty accurate, historically. both are progress killers (technologically speaking), I like where they are on the tech tree.
Well I'm not sure any country is democratic or communist right now - Russia, the UK and US look like oligopolies to me, perhaps in France you don't have to be rich to get elected (although I think Hollande is a multi-millionaire). Germany? I don't know much about the political system there but they do most things sensibly don't they? China certainly isn't Communist whatever it says. North Korea is a police state before anything else. Maybe Belgium is the best Democracy in the world?
cuba is very communistic, and china now is not that much different now than Stalinist Russia. If you mean communism as its propaganda says - government of the working class - then that government *never* existed.
If you think the US is an oligarchy then you don't really understand American politics at all. It has been becoming more and more democratic since the 1920s - and is still moving towards pure democracy. The problem is it never really was intended to be a democracy at all - the American founders were really quite afraid of democracy.
I don't know much about English or French politics.
I don't think there has ever been a pure democracy either. ancient Athens was the closest, I guess, but even then there was a class system.
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
Communism means state-owned property. That is the essence of communism. The vast majority of companies in China were owned by the state before, now that isn't exactly the case but the state does own the biggest banks and has substantial (but not exactly controlling) ownership in most major companies. The difference is that the companies are started by entrepreneurs and then bought in by the state, rather than being started by the state itself.
Cuba has started moving away from communism since Fidel Castro stepped down as president, although I'm sure he still has great practical power. If he's still alive, anyway.
(September 5th, 2013, 20:55)Bigger Wrote: cuba is very communistic, and china now is not that much different now than Stalinist Russia. If you mean communism as its propaganda says - government of the working class - then that government *never* existed.
I think there were very temporary communes in Paris and Spain that were pretty quickly crushed by the rest of Europe and Franco respectively. But yeah, genuine Marxist Communism hasn't lasted anywhere. I don't think that's an argument that it wouldn't be a good way to be governed, just that it's hard to set up stable and un-corruptly.
Cuba is a tough example because it's proximity to the US has helped it become a police state. Between the trade embargo and constant military threat it's astonishing the place has lasted so long, no doubt due to some unpleasant behaviour from the government.
(September 5th, 2013, 20:55)Bigger Wrote: If you think the US is an oligarchy then you don't really understand American politics at all. It has been becoming more and more democratic since the 1920s - and is still moving towards pure democracy. The problem is it never really was intended to be a democracy at all - the American founders were really quite afraid of democracy.
Given how much American culture we get here I suspect I understand your politics at least as well as you do . It's like this right?
(I prefer Douglas Adams' lizard version but couldn't find a video)
(September 5th, 2013, 20:55)Bigger Wrote: I don't think there has ever been a pure democracy either. ancient Athens was the closest, I guess, but even then there was a class system.
+1
Is there any reason you couldn't mix the good bits of democracy and communism? I don't think that's happened anywhere.
All this debate means I didn't have time to play the turn. I'll have to do it later...
Actually not much is happening. I'm thinking about researching Astronomy to allow me to knock out some galleons and take out a couple more of Azza's cities and perhaps boat Hydra's core. But that'll only work if Azza isn't paying attention to my research path and to Forest Green and if Hydra doesn't expect something from that angle. Guess we'll see.
Looks like Hydra is drafting infantry. Perhaps I need to try and beat him to flight?
The news this turn is that Hydra has built an ironclad. I think it'll take about 10 triremes to take it down so I might not bother building any more. Also he closed borders with me, so I think that means something is coming up soon...
Also Azza should take Aiur (which contains a musket and two damaged longbows) next turn and I think he plans to send some troops over to Mar Sara too. I can't think of a way to stop that, but I could try to have some cavalry to attck cs_compound if he empties it too much.
I'm going to get Optics this turn, then I could bulb Astronomy and part-bulb physics with my two spare great scientists. At that point some airships should let me know what Hydra is planning. But right now I think he's going to attack Lancaster with cavalry from the highlighted tile next turn... I wish I had some fast workers over here to check from the hill 2SE.
eh, I'm not all that convinced there's enough good in communism *or* democracy to make a mesh worthwhile. The reason I don't like communism is not because it isn't practical, but for the same reason I don't like democracy - I don't trust the people to do the right thing, or even act in their own best interst. But I'm probably at the fringe of American politics, not really representative of the common thought. I'd rather have a nice philosopher king, tbh. I suppose every Marcus Aurelius is succeeded by a Commodus, though, and that doesn't last very long. If I have to pick a "least worst" government, I'd say Churchill was just wrong, the Republic has historically been much more just and stable than any historical democracy (in ancient Rome and early America, for instance). I think the constitutional republic that existed in the U.S. from 1782 to 1920ish was just about as perfect as is possible in a government run by man, before the progressive coup that corrupted it into a democracy.
I better shut up now before the NSA puts me on right-wing watch group, though.
I'm glad this game has started again, I'll try to pay more attention to the actual game now
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
. It's like this right?
