[spoilers]Oh Canada! Victoria has a Commodore, eh?

[Commodore]

Do you think you benefited from your first Zulu war in PB8? My impression was that you were in a stronger position after you took all of their land.

Thanks for the segue! I was going to talk about that as a possible counter-example. Euler's Elephants for the first WE! That said, I'm not sure if I'll have the time this afternoon.

Also, durp. Anyone catch how I screwed up my micro here?

It's what I get for doing all my micro in my head during my commute.

[Krill]

Do you have enough forests for the AP?

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Do you have enough forests for the AP?

I don't think that is it. IIRC, he had a forest growth recently.

[Commodore]

That's 135h from zero, for reference. And also, prechops are such that I can get two next turn, two more the following turn, then two more on the fourth turn.

[Commodore]

Do you think you benefited from your first Zulu war in PB8? My impression was that you were in a stronger position after you took all of their land.

Okay, here is a classic land war, the Khemero-Zulu War o' PB8. Isolated and desperate, my back to a(n admittedly spacious) wall, without metal staring Zulu Impis in the face, conflict seemed inevitable. I'm very proud of my first ~100 turns of that game; very probably my best sustained Civ4 play ever, and all props to my inestimable dedlurker Thoth for pushing, prodding, and arguing me to those heights. I judged Pindicooter very well, teasing them into hubris and then slamming archers into their faces to first secure metal, then push them on the defensive for the rest of the conflict. The thing is...

The final deathknell came when I slammed an unexpected naval assault against their city on the northern coast. That sudden raze is where it all unraveled for them; hopelessness turned to despair. The sheer weight of cities ensured that I would become the victor in our conflict. Our little duel was won with that naval attack.


But...I should not have ended up in such a strong position. Pindicator is micro genius when he puts his mind to the task, and he implemented a plan to wring every single cat, axe, and galley he could from their cities...and sent them all away from me. Now if they had instead struck out towards me, would they have won? No. I know how to play this game too, and I can squeeze blood from the turnip just as well. But it would have ruined me, long term, to do so. Another three or four dozen turns of grinding war? I would have been a shambles for a long, long time. Maybe I could have recovered, taken India and its riches myself, and moved on to win...but I seriously doubt it. And my plan to beat them was always to pin their ground troops down along the front and use superior weight of hulls to fork and raze their coasts.

So if they had behaved in a conventional manner, I probably would not have profited at all from the war. And if I did profit, it would be because I used my inland sea canals to beat them along the coasts and ravage them from the sea. That's how I have always conducted successful wars; against competence there can be no other path. Next corollary I'll discuss Sea War.

TL;DR: Kids, please don't try PB8 at home.

P.S. Krill please give poor Byzantium Hunting in the mod.

[Krill]

Yeah I was thinking about that change before PB8 even started. I think the better fit is Fishing/Myst (so Spain and Byz would be the only two civs to start with that combo).

Really great insight into metagaming and valuation of choices FWIW.

[Mardoc]

You're counting both the hammers from working the forests and from chopping them. Which works up until the fourth turn, which would have been last, but leaves you a couple hammers short when you have to work a 1-hammer tile at the end.

[fluffyflyingpig]

So, given that you are doomed to another loss by mapmaking happenstance, what is the goal for the rest of the game?


Aside from another grudge match with Scootinator for the lurkers' entertainment of course.

[Thoth]

Yeah, PB8 was out of desperation. I'm pretty certain neither of us thought that going up against Impis sans metal was actually a *good* idea. We just didn't think we had a choice in the matter.

(massive xpost)

[Commodore]

So, given that you are doomed to another loss by mapmaking happenstance, what is the goal for the rest of the game?

Aside from another grudge match with Scootinator for the lurkers' entertainment of course.

Attempt to do the best I can do within the constraints of "what seems fun".

Basically, be the Arctic Fisher King; aim for a cash production model with cheap Financial banks feeding cash slider, Imp feitorias and Fin coasts making ridiculous money off of coasts and oceans in even the crappiest of icy wastes. Arty/Combustion, drop 20k to mass upgrade a hundred galleons and frigates into a real navy.

Probably some combination of paranoia, fatalism, and opportunism will have the Vikings overcome their PTSD and take me apart like a pullet in a rendering plant long before then.