Posts: 4,443
Threads: 45
Joined: Nov 2009
Shoot the Moon Wrote:To be fair to them, they weren't the only ones to get NAPs with both their neighbors and run a thin military. Jowy, Dantski, and HRE also did, it is just that the Spullans did it better. They also seem to have been pretty honest in their diplomacy: they've honored both NAPs and the no aggresive settling agreement with Jowy. If by "double dealing" you mean appearing friendly with everyone, they are by far not the only ones doing that.
I'm talking about this sort of thing from Dantski's thread as Spullla's thread is much much longer and I'm not going to dig through it:
Quote:Greetings dear emperor of Mali!
...
That is quite troubling as this dear Spulla was saying the same thing to us: except that they'll focus settling towards you, not me! We are supposedly in friendly terms with them, but it is troubling to hear that they might be playing both of us. Be very careful with these spullans.
...
~ Jowy
Quote:So if Jowy is being straight with me, Spulla are playing us both and relying on fast expansion and better production to deal with a potential 2v1 later on. I hope Jowy will prioritize settling in their direction soon. If you hadn't picked up on it yet, I'm inclined to believe Jowy for now although the next Indian city placement will be interesting to see.
What, you thought they wouldn't find out about that Sullla? 
Anyway, all those other factions were expanding. The move that really put Spullla on the dogpile list was that early academy. Yes, you can pull good moves but you better be aware of the consequences but to think that there's not going to be a strong reaction to seeing '106 GNP rival best' is rather strange. Though to be fair I think Sullla thinks about it more than he lets on.
Posts: 2,788
Threads: 10
Joined: Oct 2009
Just because Jowy (or Dantski) told the other one they were double dealing in order to convince the other to join them in the war effort doesn't mean Spulla actually were double dealing. Spulla never told Jowy they would settle in the other direction (well, they just recently did, and assuredly will follow through with that). Signing an NAP and then expanding isn't double dealing, it's playing civ. It is interesting that both Jowy and Dantski also had NAPs with both neighbors and could have done the exact same thing Spulla is doing in terms of growth, it's just Spulla outplayed them.
Don't assume that just because Jowy assumes they were double dealing that they actually are. Especially don't assume it when he is saying so in an email trying to convince someone to plot against them. I'd say someone is double dealing if I wanted the person I'm talking to go to to war with them too! 
Posts: 4,443
Threads: 45
Joined: Nov 2009
That is an email from two days after they met - before the whole kill Spullla thing was on the table.
On I think page 51 of Spullla's thread, he tells Jowy that he won't settle aggressively in his direction but at the same time he tells Dantski that he won't settle in his direciton. :-\ I guess its open to interpretation so I'll let that go since Jowy seems to think aggressive = in his direction. I'm not talking about their NAPs either, I'm talking about that particular series of events.
As for as outplaying yes, Spullla outplayed them but that's not my point: My point is that they've catapulted themselves into a crazy lead but Sullla doesn't seem to want to back it up with anything and instead acting like that massive GNP lead won't cause people to try and dogpile his team. I'm not saying that they are playing too well, I'm saying that they are underestimating their opponents. -_-'
Posts: 3,572
Threads: 20
Joined: Jan 2010
antisocialmunky Wrote:The move that really put Spullla on the dogpile list was that early academy.
This. Maybe Spullla should have made their lead more hidden by going for an early wonder or intentionally slowing development.
Personally, I think Spulla is not really looking for allies but personal advantages. They haven't made any solid allies (besides sunrise) and only did that to try to weaken kathlete. The best thing they have done for others people is an NAP which benefits them more due to their early lead.
Posts: 2,788
Threads: 10
Joined: Oct 2009
antisocialmunky Wrote:On I think page 51 of Spullla's thread, he tells Jowy that he won't settle aggressively in his direction but at the same time he tells Dantski that he won't settle in his direciton. :-\
I'd say he followed through with both :neenernee
But yes, I agree that Sulla is underestimating the competition. The interesting thing is that Speaker doesn't seem to be. It'll be interesting to see who leads that team more.
To be fair to Sulla, it is rather hard to predict a 5 team dogpile. Sulla has identified both Jowy and Dantski as possible threats to invade them (although identifying Jowy wasn't exactly hard!). Obviously if they knew they had 5 teams coming, they'd play differently, but considering they can only realistically expect Jowy and Dantski, they at least would have a reasonable chance to win that particular 2v1.
EDIT: Crosspost with WarriorKnight. I agree that Sulla may have diplomatically blundered by not more thoroughly pursuing and ally. Then again, with the position they are in, could they really trust an ally?
Posts: 4,443
Threads: 45
Joined: Nov 2009
Shoot the Moon Wrote:To be fair to Sulla, it is rather hard to predict a 5 team dogpile. Sulla has identified both Jowy and Dantski as possible threats to invade them (although identifying Jowy wasn't exactly hard!). Obviously if they knew they had 5 teams coming, they'd play differently, but considering they can only realistically expect Jowy and Dantski, they at least would have a reasonable chance to win that particular 2v1.
Quote:By the way, it's extremely bad news for us that athlete, kalin, Jowy, and Nakor are planning on being on the same team in RBPB3. One game isn't supposed to affect another, but they undoubtedly do; look at how regoarrarr and sunrise being on the same team in this game has them glued together in RBPB1. This further suggests that athlete and Jowy have some sort of agreement, and possibly Nakor too!
Unless you make it really obvious. 
Posts: 1,229
Threads: 27
Joined: Aug 2006
Felt it would be spoilerish in Dantski's thread re HA vs IW:
antisocialmunky Wrote:Can you elaborate for us lurkers Swiss?
HAs give speed of attack & forking chances, and units that are useful long term (cat flanking, zone defence). In comparison, swords give the defender an extra turn's emergency whipping in the only city they can target. Whilst a spear has a greater advantage over an HA than axe vs sword, it's marginal and far outweighed by attacking (at least) one unit fewer. If the attacker can fork, then the defender may even have to sacrifice the less city to hold the better one.
Posts: 5,640
Threads: 30
Joined: Apr 2009
Look at the current Otto/Byz war. HAs coming out of nowhere, giving Byz only 1 turn to react, while attacking straight on, whereas swords would give Byz 2 turns if they attack across the river, 3 turns if they don't. Byzantium is dead. Long live Istanbul.
Posts: 7,548
Threads: 63
Joined: Dec 2005
Cyneheard Wrote:Look at the current Otto/Byz war. HAs coming out of nowhere, giving Byz only 1 turn to react, while attacking straight on, whereas swords would give Byz 2 turns if they attack across the river, 3 turns if they don't. Byzantium is dead. Long live Istanbul.
Hi everyone. To answer this specifically, we gave up the archer zerg plan for our defense in exchange for Operation Shilling. We knew we'd be dead if they came with anything before T85.
.... and here we are
Some interesting reads in here
Posts: 145
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2009
Dr. Nomadic Wrote:In a multiplayer game I would indeed advocate ganging up on the strongest team, and not playing mercenary kingmaker like Jowy wants to do (or what Imperio did in the Apolyton Demogame). Unfortunately, you guys are the top spot in the vulnerable position! Think about it for some time; you've got two nutcases on both sides, combined with rowdy Turks with lots of room to expand, plus all sides possibly hiring Aggressive Praetorians as mercenaries. I'd say you cleaned out Greece right now, using the earlier plans!
EDIT: Yep, seems that Pitboss #3 will have Jowy, athlete, and Nakor on the same team. Imagine FIVE civilizations dogpiling on you. Just think about the possibility. It's definetely possible, since they will likely know about your crazy GNP/food lead, plus using that multiplayer mentality...
You could just resort to diplomacy instead, but I'm warning you on this one!
EDIT2: If this demogame turned into the 1st place team getting dogpiled on (likely Broker/Plako followed by Zeviz/Kodii) all the time, we will end up with a classical age duel in 1000 AD. It would be really important to convince your neighbors to avoid the nightmare scenario.
Would anyone else consider this post in Spulla's thread to be verging on spoilerish?
__________________
|
