[PB60] Amicalola and Vanrober: Gone' Fishing!

[Amicalola]

T22-23
Our 2nd scout finished and is off to detect Egyptians. We finished it for a turn at size 3 instead of starting the settler straight away, because my paper-calculations said that we'd finish him on the same turn either way. 

I'm extra worried about SD rushing us because it looks like he went straight to AH before Hunting, which he might have done if he wants horses for his 2nd city (technically we did the same, so maybe the starts are just mirrored). If we're really lucky he's missed them with his scout, which seems to have beelined pretty hard for us.

No picture today because my upload failed, sorry. There'll be one next turn.

[Amicalola]

T24-25 Overview



We met Lazteuq this turn. He knows Bronze Working and Hunting, which is very helpful for us. We are currently on Bronze Working, and will want Hunting soon for spears. 

Honestly, the bulk of my time has been spent stressing over two things. These are the general unpleasantness of neighboring Superdeath of Egypt, and the sheer absurdity of Creative on this map. But I'll have a lot more fun if I play the map, rather than whine/ruminate about it, so I'll let it out now. Then we can brainstorm instead.  

1) Neighboring Superdeath (Creative/Imperialistic of War Chariots)

Superdeath is the most aggressive player here. Catherine is the most obnoxious leader here. War chariots evoke trauma. He rushed Animal Husbandry. He got capital vision on T15. So yeah I'm pretty stressed about this. However, we've already done all we can (so far), that I know of. We've got SD's demos, and we built a scout instead of a warrior so that we can (hopefully) sniff out any trouble before it arrives. I guess in that sense I learned from PB51 (I seriously didn't think to post a scout on the border  ). Now we just have to wait and pray that Superdeath has changed his ways. 


2) Ocean Fish


So I've touched on this already. But I'm beginning to realise that Creative is the best trait on this map, and nothing else comes close. GKC and Superdeath (and whoever builds Stonehenge Mjmd) won the picking contest, straight up, although they couldn't know it at the time. And it's driving me crazy!  

Ahem; Brainstorming. So, what can we do about this? I can think of three ways to efficiently spread culture early on:
- Creative
- Stonehenge
- Early religion + OR
Obviously the first one is out. The second is highly unlikely (although I was only half-joking about dropping everything for it). So in my mind, we very clearly need a religion; probably Judaism. There's no other way to efficiently pop our borders and work those 6(!) ocean fish that we've already found. We might even do a double-anarchy like in PB56; it's super rough, but if there's no alternative... Or maybe we try to have a super early GA for the swaps. But I think we have to make a religion work, because the alternative (monuments) is simply appalling, relatively speaking.

[Amicalola]

Vanrober and I had a chat about GLH dates, tech path and sims. He simmed for a while looking at city-sites, and I've spent an hour simming out rough dates for GLH completion (rough because of ktb). It looks like we're thinking ~T65, or later if we tech Mysticism. Admittedly that was a pretty quick few tests, so maybe room for improvement.  

With that said, I don't think I'm going to sim anymore for this game (or any game from now on), beyond choosing a civ/leader. In this game, it's mostly because Superdeath is close, and can wreck any plans if he chooses. I dislike how inflexible long micro plans are, because either your game or your morale is ruined if they're interrupted. My morale doesn't need any help being ruined! But it's something I've been thinking about for a while, ever since someone (Pindicator?) mentioned it in the 59 tech thread.

Ultimately I play Civ because I enjoy it, and learning about it; simming is the closest it gets to a chore, or a job. Meanwhile, doing my micro during my turns is the best part of these games to me. What's the key difference between them? I'm honestly not sure, but my best guess is it's the stress of near-infinite potential optimization.  

This might be much bigger deal in my head than in reality. I feel like I'm in a confessional hall or something.  And maybe this is the moment where my skill plummets back into PB51 level. But I think I'll do ok, and even if I'm wrong, having fun outweighs that.

[Charriu]

I play for fun, too. Everything else, including winning, comes second to that

[chumchu]

I also dislike micro plans as it is a chore, makes turn less fun and can make you forget the big picture. I can accept planning out the first 30ish turns as it helps me avoid playing on routine and discover new things and the time invested compared to the gain is highest then.

[vanrober]

So nice to see you here chumchu! On PB56 we played without sims after turn 30 and im really proud on how it went. 

Its me who is telling Amica now to sim a bit since we dont really know which cities should be next (the second city is sure for us), we have several options. One is on the plainshill onf the south to work the silver asap and get the religion tech asap to expand culture fast without losing time for TGLH. That is my proposal.

Amica tried to settle on the clams wheat site and on the pigs sheep of the south orphaning the fish. Which has a better early but worse late.

I think the only way to decide is to sim a bit, i dont even try microing cities, i just go whith fast sims to see the overview after some turns, and then decide which feels better. At least that is my way. I dont want to force to do anything to Amica, i just tell him my impressions. he is the one that is best and the one that is playing so he will decide everything.

I hope we can make this thread fun enough so you enjoy to lurk this game!!

[Amicalola]

Nice to know I am not alone.

Right now we are waiting for copper before finalizing some kind of dotmap. I would like to get copper in our 3rd city, or 4th at the very latest, because Superdeath's existence has me permanently on edge. He's changed (apparently) in recent games, but he also picked Egypt...

[Amicalola]

T26-32
Our settler is on the move and we converted to Slavery this turn. We'll settle our second city next turn, 3N of Salmon.

There are two sources of copper. They're really easy to get...



...IF YOU'RE CREATIVE.

We'd actually already have it. But now, we have two options. We can wait until T51, and use the 3rd-ring copper to the west. Or we can settle a subpar location (red or blue dot) in the east for earlier copper. I suppose it depends on what we see from SD; it's a tough decision.

[chumchu]

Thanks Vanrober!

That reminds of the game I had with him as egypt. He managed to pillage My copper the turn before my first spear completed

[Amicalola]

T33


This turn we settled Tuna. This city will build a work boat with the mine, before growing like a normal city. We chose this spot because of the instant PRO river connection, the plains hill, and our ability to work a 4-hammer tile immediately. It's not the best city, but it's the fastest we could find, and (hopefully) a good spot for GLH in 30-ish turns.

Research is at 0% this turn, before we research Wheel->Pottery (probably). After that is likely Hunting, for spears. Vanrober hasn't weighed in yet; depending on his input Hunting might come first.

Superdeath settled his 2nd city on T32. Our scout has determined that the ocean between us and Lazteuq is likely an inland sea; we met his warrior down the bottom of his 'strip.' My working theory is that we're on a chain of three spirals, almost like DNA. What does the espionage icon next to SD on the scoreboard mean?

Not one of the prettiest fish out there, but probably the one I've eaten the most. I half lived off tuna for a few years; I don't even want to think about how much mercury is coursing through my veins.