[PB63 Spoilers] - Pindicator Unlocks 10 Year Achievement

[Krill]

Hmmm? Worker into workboat, improve wheat then pig, wheat t15, pig t20 workboat eot19, clam hooked t21 and worked t22, rather than the banana to even out the hammers. Go Agri to AH, then either Mining to BE or pick up wheel before to road to the city location. Agri into AH finishes before eot16 right?

Growth@2 eot16,
Growth@3 eot20,
Growth@4 eot23
Growth@5 eot25,
Size 5, 17fhpt, settler eot31?

Please note this is done entirely in my head, no spreadsheet tracking or sim work except to calculate beaker costs using Sevens old spreadsheet.

[Krill]

Looking at the options to pair with charismatic:

ORG: Taken.
AGG: Taken.
PRO: passive, but solid backup if the fear is being left behind economically (not my dear from this snakepick)
EXP: ...Sorry Charriu, but this has limited flavour and I think limited hammer savings as only building that matters is the granary. I am not worried about slow leaders taking all the land in this snakepick or mod.
IMP: not with this capital at size 5 IMO
SPI: Doable but hard work.
IND: Henge seems like a bad idea, Mids can't be planned on TO, but this capital can one turn GLH or Oracle after sitting at size 5 churning out food hammer units so it's an option. OTOH this puts a hard clock on GA bombs.
CRE: Prefer 45 hammer libs to 30 hammer granaries on the push to Construction when Writing gives OB plus easier dot mapping to bait a bad front city. Plus makes it easier to plant on hills for greater Phalanx trolling. 8ts basically vanilla CRE.
FIN: Why pick this when PRO exists?
PHI: double GA bomb? GA bomb plus Education bulbs? If the capital could justify an Academy this could be argued strongly IMO but here, with Greece, it would take alot of forward planning to pull off.

My view is San Martin is possibly the strongest and most fun option if Boudicca is off the table.

[pindicator]

Hmmm? Worker into workboat, improve wheat then pig, wheat t15, pig t20 workboat eot19, clam hooked t21 and worked t22, rather than the banana to even out the hammers. Go Agri to AH, then either Mining to BE or pick up wheel before to road to the city location. Agri into AH finishes before eot16 right?

Ah, here's our problem. eot17 for Agri > AH, and that's with working the oasis 3 turns while building the work boat.

Growth@2 eot16,
Growth@3 eot20,
Growth@4 eot23
Growth@5 eot25,
Size 5, 17fhpt, settler eot31?

Please note this is done entirely in my head, no spreadsheet tracking or sim work except to calculate beaker costs using Sevens old spreadsheet.

I hit all those growth points, but eot 25 I either have the warrior at 14/15 or if I finish the warrior then I'm a food short of growing to 5.

[Krill]

Is AH 156 beakers^

[pindicator]

Yeah, that's right

[Krill]

Ah, I probably miscounted due to mixing up workboat first numbers. Easy to underestimate the commerce difference from working the clam so much quicker. I don't think there is a way to micro in the settler via juggling to make things fit short of mining a hill to work and that feels wrong.

Might want to check wb first but I think it comes out further behind on the settler if the aim is size 5, makes more sense to stop at 4 but the loss of oasis commerce drags it back compared to worker first.

[pindicator]

Well, there are no barbarians. If we don't see anybody nearby we can always send the first settler out naked, either starting it at size 4 or just switching off the warrior 1 turn from completion.

I see the argument for San Martin, and I never thought I would see an argument for him but I have to say it's got me thinking about it. My thoughts were leaning towards De Gaulle and aiming for Great Lighthouse, and at least getting cheap forges for production. Do you think the Great People from a wonder would really impact a Great Artist that much? It gives you a 33-turn counter to tech to Construction and build an Odeon, but that seems doable.

Edit: Damn, you really are making me think hard about San Martin.

[pindicator]

All right, so I think I've decided on how I'm going to play the opening and the trait to pair with CHA.

First of all, I just can't find a way to magically muster that extra food or hammer. Out of micro tricks, or rather that there just aren't any areas for us to give ground. We need every beaker, wheat bushel, and hammer just to come up a little short.

But what I can do is start the settler on t24 after growing to size 4 and completing the 2nd scout. I can then work the banana instead of the clams to give enough overflow so that the settler finishes eot29. And grow to 5 eot32 because the warrior still doesn't line up here. Or more likely: build a 2nd worker if we still don't see any snooping warriors by then. I can always swap out the scout for a warrior if I find someone in the vicinity by then.0

We absolutely need CHA to work this plan because there's no other way of being size 4 with no MP. But what for trait #2? I'm a little higher than Krill on EXP but it does feel like a trait only to boost granaries now. I'm not sure I agree with liking a 45h library over a 30h granary because I'm not sure what commerce we'll be actually multiplying. And it always helps to boost newer cities. There are a lot of competing tech necessities after AH, not a lot of commerce, and elevated tech costs. So much that we're working the 3f2c oasis over the 3f1h banana a few turns just to get AH in time. Going for CRE is a good way to save tech costs: no need to tech Mysticism because borders will always pop. IND adds more "tech competition" in that we're going to want to go for Masonry & Sailing early for an early wonder at the same time we're going to already be picking between Mysticism, Mining > BW, and Writing > Pottery. Then later on we'll have competing goals of early Metal Casting and Construction.

So all this tech bottleneck makes me think we actually do want PRO or FIN to add Commerce. PRO would almost certainly mean Wheel after AH as connecting cities would be the priority. FIN needs Sailing and a lighthouse to get its water bonus going. As Krill said, what's the point of FIN when PRO is around? It doesn't even boost the oasis (which would let me build that warrior alongside growth to size 5).

I'm going to sleep on it, but right now it's between Churchill, Washington, and San Martin. Probably Churchill.

EDIT: I'm still open to Lincoln, Brennus, or De Gaulle, but there would have to be a good plan behind them and I don't really have one in mind. Especially Lincoln since I just crashed and burned with him recently.

[civac2]

Not sure I understand you correctly but you can stagnate at 4 without MP or CHA. With Palace happy cap is 5 and lack of MP only adds one extra unhappy face at size 4.

Edit: You probably just meant size 5. 

[Krill]

Question about OB and PRO: will people give trade routes, and if not, does it matter? Given that OB with neighbours night be a little harder to get when they are starring at a culture bomb to the face?

Regarding the extra hammer debacle, just checking, but the commerce gain from work boat first and working the oasis is not negligible in the first 30-50 turns. It might be worth reconsidering traits from this perspective: EXP is going to work commerce tiles for how long? Before it can pop borders and offer cheap granaries?

CRE seems like the most insular choice, OTOH, more tiles, no competition from other tech will mean there is an option to cottage more in t40-t70 in the push to Construction. I don't know how that would compare to trade route commerce. How does PRO benefit from island cities?