[Spoilers PB23] Old Harry's attempt at civilizing AdrienIer

[AdrienIer]

Cheap forums, don't forget. But I agree that amongst the 4 cheap buildings of exp none of them are super strong and must-builds in all cities. What I liked about exp is that we get 1 turn off the WB and 2 (I think) off the worker. Genghis is definitely a nice choice, Augustus is gone so no imp-ind and you're probably right that bad exp rounding makes Imp a better choice. Org is a nice end game trait but if we're taking agg for praets we need an early trait to help the early growth. Fin is probably a bad idea due to many rivers.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Looking good guys

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Sorry I have been pretty busy currently. Just catching up!

I agree with Old Harry, if you are looking for a trait that speeds the early game here, as much as I prefer exp, I think imp would save more turns. The exp buildings are interesting, but the only thing that could change that if large amounts of workboats would be needed (did the script throw up a lot of fish resources?)

I really like the new agg on this mod, and with prets seems a no brainer. The ability to have the cheap culture producing barracks, the costs reduction and promos seem like a cracking combo.

However, what do you plan to do? Do you plan to try to push to the agg prets? Basically agg/imp shouts rex with fear of prets to hold the holds, and agg to reduce the costs. You shouldn't really think of trying to take land at the cata/pret stage too much which is where Rome shines. But you could go for something like Agg/Org, or the Agg/exp, or Agg/pro. These could be put to taking land early rather than a pure rex... Depends how you want to play.

I will do a sim or 2 when you have chosen your leader, but have a think about what play style you would enjoy before you choose.

[AdrienIer]

I think Genghis is best, if Agent/TBS take him I'll 1) make it my first objective to make them lose the game and 2) opt for a longer term approach with possibly agg/org (hammurabi). Agg is a weak early expansion trait but it's still better than nothing so I can take the risk of a slower start to get something good elsewhere. Fin I would take if there wasn't that huge river roaming through my land. Stalin is still a possibility though, although it doesn't have great synergy.

Also first super odd pick, Persia. If you're looking for a hunt/agri civ you have Zulu, Persia has an underwhelming UB and a UU that's a chariot with a bonus against archers and who can use defense bonuses, while not the worse UU ever it's not as OP as many others. It could also be mackoti wanting to give us normal people a chance but I somehow doubt it. Also REM did you notice that Grimace and Wetbandit chose Mehmet of Korea ? I'll be a bit schizophrenic in the next couple months.

Edit : just remembered that Zulu where gone with 3rd pick, so they must have needed the techs;

[AdrienIer]

It took them less than 10mn after my post to take Genghis from us, I hate them... It leaves us with a few choices : Tokugawa for cheap granaries and triple promo gunpowder units, Hammurabi for courthouses and late game goodness, Stalin for wonders (praets are a good deterrent for potential attackers) or Shaka (cheap UB and more WB/Workers). Ragnar too, it's a gamble on good non river land. I'd consider Joao too if it had any real late game eco bonus to compensate the loss of agg but cheaper grocer/market doesn't qualify. I could make a good case for all of them, do you have any preference OH ?

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Haha trolling you there

[AdrienIer]

Here's my first optimized try with Shaka :

2 workers, 4 forests chopped, 8 overflow, 1 whip.

Coming next, simming with one of the others (Ragnar gets us 1 more commerce with the fish so I'll do it with Stalin or something).

[AdrienIer]

Now first test with Stalin, one worker 2 chops, 1 whip overflow, pastured cow and a turn sooner.

Can't really decide what's best... The good thing about ind is that if we let Elum and mackoti's Augustus be the only ind they'll have a huge advantage.

[Old Harry]

It took them less than 10mn after my post to take Genghis from us, I hate them... It leaves us with a few choices : Tokugawa for cheap granaries and triple promo gunpowder units, Hammurabi for courthouses and late game goodness, Stalin for wonders (praets are a good deterrent for potential attackers) or Shaka (cheap UB and more WB/Workers). Ragnar too, it's a gamble on good non river land. I'd consider Joao too if it had any real late game eco bonus to compensate the loss of agg but cheaper grocer/market doesn't qualify. I could make a good case for all of them, do you have any preference OH ?

Well, that makes things harder.

- Hammy - I think AGG/ORG get in each others way - we barely built courthouses in PB13 because AGG meant they weren't so useful (which then meant we got smoked for EPs by dtay ).
- You could probably get Commodore to dedlurk if you pick Tokugawa. I'm still unsure about PRO though.
- Stalin lets you get more hammers earlier, so could be good for Praet/Knighting someone. I'd probably head for the top of the tree and get the Statue of Zeus to allow masses of commando units mid-late game.
- Shaka - EXP didn't give us the boost that we hoped for with this start.
- Joao - I quite like, but perhaps Charlie (IMP/PRO) synergises better with cheap granaries in your many, many cities...
- FIN would still be good if there's going to be a lot of water, but we won't know that until we see how many land tiles there are .

If I have a favourite trait in this mod its probably IMP. But with Genghis, Julius and Augustus gone it looks like that's what everyone is thinking... If you didn't want AGG then IMP/CRE might be interesting?

I'm confused about how your sims are coming out t27 - did IMP really cut four turns or is that because you built the extra worker? Afraid I have no time for simming tonight, but I'll chime back in if I think of anything else.

[AdrienIer]

The first sim's lateness is for the second worker, the second one is just because we have no bonus... I did that because if you're exp you might as well get an early second worker. I could try with only 1 worker to see how it goes. I don't like pro too much either, I think I can narrow the pick to either Shaka or Stalin.