So I decided to leave it to you. I did login though, in order to give you a shot of what's happening. I was greeted by a cease fire offer from Grillo. Of course that's meaningless, if you take it he still can declare on you again the very same turn. I tried to just shut down civ to let you decide what to do about it, but when i logged in again it had disappeared and you're still at war. You can of course reoffer, or troll him with a peace offer. The game is paused, you can unpause with the Pause key.
Now to the actual news:
the cease fire offer that disappeared. Hint: You can move the mini map while the diplo screen is up, that's what I did to spot the chariot (you can't hover over the stack though)
It's over. I'm sorry. There are 2 chariots and just one quechua in the city.
To give my 2 cents on your game so far:
I really like your pick, one of the two strongest here I think
The idea with the capital monument was pretty innovative, props for that
I think you did a quite decent job at scouting
I have to agree with Suite that without AH, you'd easily have a road between your cities by now, and probably got a spear or even 2 in the second one. AH first is daring, and while you got one of the 2 very bad neighbours for that (the other one, btw, is imo the Zulu, Rome doesn't matter), you should note that at this point you'd be dying to two normal chariots just as well. Now if you had two pigs close by I could understand the gamble, but the plains cow can't really be worth it when you have two wheats at your cap, and corn and wheat in second ring. I think going BW first (if you have at least one food tech) is never a bad idea, as it tells you where to plant your second city and gives you slavery.
I don't like your second city location at all. Of course flood plains are awesome, but they are also really expensive to improve. Also, they grow slowly and don't really add to your expansion, but commerce which you don't need as much at this point. Were you even going to have pottery before the third city? The location by the SE copper is way better imo - first ring food and copper mine, shareable wheat, and later cow, and connected with three roads. Also farther from Egypt (the flood plains were the lead !)
It wouldn't have changed anything really (as the second city couldn't be saved), but I was quite surprised that you didn't ask me for shots of the power graph (and the other ones). Grillo's military buildup was pretty visible there. Also on PBspy you could see him whipping twice on turn 36 and once more on turn 38. Edit: You could also see how he very evidently started to establish a turn order with him playing after us.
I don't know at which point you found Egypt, but as it was pretty clear what was coming, could you have quechua rushed them / camped the horse site?
As I said, I went into this spoiled, so had to be really careful so to not give away my spoiler information about this attack which I knew was coming (well you also did know, but I had a better idea when). I hope you still feel that I did what was needed to keep the game going according to your plans. It doesn't change anything, with the chariots arriving this turn we were doomed already.
I hope the frustration isn't too much and you'll join another game here soon enough
Hmm, yikes.
You've definitely convinced me on the AH thing with the normal chariots argument. I hadn't thought about it like that, and you're right, I would be dead no matter who it was if they went fast. I think I was baited by the river making the cows even better, although in reality that one commerce doesn't really matter at all. Whoops. BW first was definitely the go.
Second city location was based on a rush, but a slightly later rush. If I'd been next to Vanrober, I agree it's awful. I think you're right that the other copper would have been smarter though, and you're also right for sure that I justified it in my head with the floodplains (stupid, sexy, floodplains). Being further from Egypt could have saved me that valuable 2-3 turns I've already moped about.
Not asking about the power graphs was my bad. I've been quite busy, and it just totally slipped my mind. To be honest I think I'd already dug my grave by the point I handed the turns over to you (with aforementioned errors), but that's definitely something to keep in mind if I ever need a sub for a future game. Also haven't been checking PBSpy since I left, which was just dumb. I should have been, there was no reason not to.
I considered a quechua rush, but didn't feel confident in my abilities to orchestrate it. I'm assuming I can't check other threads until I'm completely dead, but it might have hampered his development a LOT, and been more bang for my buck than I expected.
No problems at all with the way you posted here: taking on a sub role while you're spoiled and watching the instructing player give you bad directions must be... Yeah. Thanks for volunteering.
Question: what's considered sportsmanlike here re: death? My instinct is to hamper EG as long as I can (not long without resources but y'know). Should I roll over and admit defeat or play on?
I feel like I overall fell victim to a few noob-traps in the map design, most obviously the northern floodplains settle and the AH start. Not complaining at all Commodore if it comes off that way; either they were accidental and it’s still a useful learning experience, or they were on purpose and it was really good map design. Either way, from what I’ve seen the map is really interesting, lots of tough decisions, so thank you. Must have been a lot of work.
I think I undervalued wheel to some degree, I forgot just how important troop movement is when fighting chariots. BW over AH would certainly have helped us.
I'd like to thank Miguelito, especially since I was unable to fully fulfill my job as a dedlurker, and since he was spoiled while doing all this. Mad props to him.
As for being sportsmanlike: I'd say fight to the bitter end. It's more sporting for the rest of the map, and we aren't really in a position to hamper him all that much.
I think we put up a decent fight all things considered. Sorry to have your first PB end like this, but I hope you had fun. I also hope that you will lurk around, and consider joining other PBs in the future.
That's looking grim but I hope you get over it. You are not dead, although Gooch and a solid perspective for the rest of the game are gone. Your capital is located on a hill, your Quechuas have Strength 1. Keep producing them (chop accordingly), research archery (it's only difficulty Monarch and you will lose Gooch, so you can research on 100%) and reach the 40% culture def which ticks in a bit sooner than normal because of the monument (maybe it makes a difference, who knows). That being said, you probably don't make it past turn 50, but there is still some work to do for you. If you want, that is - I don't think anybody would be mad at you for not resisting "properly".
I abandoned El Grillos story since yesterday to support you from now on, maybe there is still something in store for you in this game!
I'm pretty committed to playing this out as well as I can based on the feedback. The way I see it (although I need to get into the game to really check - only 10 hours left until I can!) we have two options: turtle on quechuas and archers at Springer, or make a Very Bold, Very Stupid decision to find a new copper. I'll have to make that decision tonight when I get into the game, and I'll try to keep you guys posted as well as I can.
I have realised (I think?) that with the second half of the turn I would have been able to get the second quechua out at Gooch, which is a real shame. Might have bought an extra turn if the combat went 1:1 victories (slightly lucky but not massively), which would've got my other boys there, which would've saved the city, which would've unlocked spears in the cap, which would've completely changed the game, and suddenly EG is the one worried about invasion. All based on that Turn Order. Damn it. That's what I get for being pliable to his war-dec conditions, I guess. Maybe I should have been more resistant? Then I would've just felt like a jerk holding up the game even more though. It's an interesting example of Butterfly Effect.
I want to make EG bleed as much as possible to give the other players as much of a chance of beating him. So basically, we are down but not out!
I also just saw MJMD's post in the new mod thread, and I don't want to post it publicly because of spoilers, but if I do go out in the next 10-20 turns (let's be honest - thats quite likely), I will probably consider starting a new PitBoss game (or at least, creating the new thread), ideally another Greens one. This was interesting, but hasn't exactly sated my appetite.
Way too early to commit, but it's a real possibility.
This is bordering on spam by now but another thing that could've saved this would've been if I sent both workers up to Gooch straight away with the settler to farm a floodplains. We'd be at size two by now, and able to whip a spear. Another hindsight-should-have-been-foresight moment.
Most fair to all players is to keep playing your best. One of the big risks with aggression is prolonged war or later counterattacks.
As somewhat of an expert of playing from unwinnable position, my advice is to give yourself goals other than winning the game in order to stay motivated.
OK, I've logged in, had a little tinker around, and played this turn. Thinking I will post an overall goals post before I head to bed. Warning: This is going to be a Long One.
So, you might be thinking, Amicalola is going to huddle in Springer for 10 turns until a mass (herd?) of War Chariots envelops him. He really screwed the balance of this game up, huh.
Well, the second one might still turn out to be true, I'm not sure. But the first? Nah, I'm going to try and make something of this game still. To sum up early, I like what Jowy said about short-term goals a lot. For now, they are roughly (in order): don't lose Springer; secure a path to SE Copper City; settle SE Copper City; whip some spears; create new goals from there. Obviously winning the game is out, but I'm sure there are some fun ones just waiting to be thought up.
THE PLAN
As expected, Gooch is soon-to-be Gone. Goodbye. Good riddance. The biggest problem that creates is removing my future copper, which was the only reason I settled such a subpar location anyways. Because of that, I have two options: turtle at Springer with archers, or do something a little more interesting. The problem with turtling is that even if it takes him 50 more turns to kill me, EG only needs to keep a couple war chariots nearby to whack any settlers I send out, and he can finish me off at leisure, while still expanding and fighting other players. No thanks, I need metals. The south-eastern copper city, now that's a more promising scenario. The Wheel finishes in 6 turns, by which time EG will attack the capital if he thinks he can, and rampantly pillage if not. Because of that, most forests mean nothing to me right now, while population I want to keep (whipping away in 5 turns when I can't work improved tiles is much better than whipping away now). I need to keep the hilly path from Springer to New City clear as well, so that I can safely road. Unfortunately, until I grab that copper, he can nearly roam around at will. Many quechuas are going to lose their lives here even if we break through, I feel. :/
So, we are now roleplaying as Climate Deniers and are going to absolutely Hack every tree within reach to bits. Er, behind my river. War Chariots are scary! I am building another worker (2t) which will make for a total of three, who will then chop out a settler ASAP. Yes, I could build quechuas, but will they do anything more than our current 5? I doubt it. This is the biggest unsure point in my plan, whether I want quechuas before settler (to protect route, mostly) or just straight settler (to get route faster). These workers will chop until necessary, then head to the future city (unnamed as of yet), mine the copper, then build roads as soon as that's done, while Springer will begin whipping spears asap afterwards, and overflow more quechuas beforehand (ok, they do suck, but I can't die before the spear part).
Regarding copper city, the immediate option that sticks out to me is settling on the copper or 1N to get the yield. Depends how immediately dire the situation obviously, but I think there's a pretty serious chance we need to make a tactical retreat from Springer and abandon that too (which would break my heart), in which case the yield would be Very Important. On the other hand, the 2turn difference between settling on or near the tile might be the difference between leaving Springer or not. It's impossible to know yet, just thought I'd mention it as one of the thoughts milling around my head at the moment.
EL GRILLO & CHARRIU - RIDERS OF LARGE CHARIOTS
Having looked at the power graphs, I think El Grillo has 5 war chariots right now, having just got the fifth. Ideally he'll lose one at Gooch, though we'd have to get quite lucky. I've left the quechua there because it can't escape across flat ground anyway - might as well give him the chance to take one of them with him.
There are a few people that I suspect El Grillo doesn't have on the other side of him. Those people are:
Mjmd: EG would rush him instead, most likely
Superdeath: EG would be worried about leaving himself exposed
Vanrober: Almost certainly to the west anyway, but also the same issue as Superdeath
So, as for the rest, I'm hoping one of them will realise what is happening next turn when my city is autorazed, and perhaps begin a plan to come to my aid (cripple a dangerous neighbour, from their perspective). El Grillo is surely sending at least 2 more chariots this way, much more likely all three. That leaves him with... well, not a whole lot back home! Ideally it will be Ramk with skirmishers, or Giraflorens with immortals, but really, anyone would do, even just some generic chariots or something. Imagine if EG lost his own capital trying to take mine!
More likely, that's not going to happen. I think we need to assume we're on our own until strictly proven otherwise.
SNEAKY BEAKY?
I'm not sure what the thoughts are on sportsmanship for this, so this is more a question than a plan. Until copper city is founded (really the whole game but especially now), it is absolutely in our best interest for El Grillo to think me resigned and mentally out of the game. The more he thinks that, the slower, and sloppier, he might be. I've been thinking about a few ways to do this. A couple of immediate thoughts: I could try to keep posting to a minimum in the very short-term, and resort to editing them if I have to. I might also play my turns very quickly and use a sim to do planning. Will any of this work? Very unlikely. It can't hurt though. I'm unsure if it's worth a shot. Would it be considered unsportsmanlike?
(the flood plains were the lead 
!)
