Okay - long chat with IamJohn
Definitely worth a read but if yo udon't have the time - here's the highlights
1) Generally me sowing the seeds of distrust of the "evil" Ottomans
2) More importantly, we need to come up with a list of how they can help us
3) They (the Ottomans) don't like us
Quote: IamJohn: Hey regoarrarr, you there?
me: hi
yes
IamJohn: hey
me: IamJohn? iamjohn? other?
IamJohn: sorry, Iamjohn
me: ok
that's what i thought
but it shows up as IamJohn for some reason
IamJohn: hmm
I'll have to look into that
Hey, first of all, I'm sorry for essentially ignoreing you for the past several emails
me: well the header says iamjohn, IamJohn & zeviz
IamJohn: mostly it wasn't intentional
me: okay
we are starting to wonder if we're on the receiving end of some sort of freeze-out
IamJohn: I have the problem that this is my first real MP experience where I'm running things, so try to wait for what IamJohn or Zeviz have to say and IamJohn's time is consumed with PB1, and Zeviz isn't available much
This is also finals week for me, which means I haven't had much time for the past while
me: yeah i know it can be hard when you have multiple people on a team
trying to get consensus and such
IamJohn: There's also in-game reasons why we've been reticent to respond however.
Something that's kinda concerned me is that it's really seemed like you've been pushing hard on the settling front
me: well, you know that athlete has declared war and taken our 2nd city?
so right now we only have 1 city (oru capital)?
IamJohn: yeah, we saw
me: so i guess we haven't settled very much then
(at least not settled it very well!! :-D)
IamJohn: it isn't how much you've settled, it's where you've chosen to settle
me: okay
i thought you guys were on the other side of athlete?
IamJohn: We're not too far either
the concern then at least, was that were you to box in athlete, he would have to declare on one of us
me: well that's a valid concern but probably not anything you need to worry about at this point
IamJohn: no, not anymore
me: we're not going to be settling much given that we have 3 ottoman units in our borders pillaging
IamJohn: What exactly happed with the war declaration?
Both of you came crying to us that their trust in the other had been horribly violated, and that their trust in humanity was shaken :P
me: lol
well, there's always 3 sides to every story i guess
IamJohn: lol
me: our side is that we settled the city of paris
they and i started talking about border agreements
they were not that happy with the settlement
they wanted compensation
we started talking about ways we could do that
as well as border agreements
i thought that the talks were going in a positive direction
we agreed to lelt them settle in the spot they said they wanted to (i think it was 3S1W of paris?)
and had offered a free worker
in teh meantime they were busy chopping out a chariot army
then they lied about a worker they had - it was roading and wheen we called them on it they said "oh sorry i thought we were supposed to be getting trade routes with you guys"
and then athlete sent us a lie saying that due to the remoting in issues, he had "misclicked" a warrior next to our borders
going so far as making up stuff in the email / technical issues thread
then they declared, moved in with 4 chariots, and took the city
i don't know what all they've told you......
IamJohn: hmm
Sent at 2:22 PM on Wednesday
IamJohn: heh, they didn't like you threatening them after they took your city
(was trying to find their email about situation)
Do you think you guys will be able to hold them off if they try to go in for the kill?
me: oh if they thought that hwas bad you should have seen the email i drafted originally but didn't send :-D
IamJohn: lol
me: i decided to take out the part about wishing they would both drop dead
IamJohn: I can understand
me:
IamJohn: that's funny
:D
me: mostly because i didn't really mean it but also i didn't think that would be great diplomacy
IamJohn: most likely not
are you guys getting pushed on the other side by other civs?
Is that why you settled so close to a/k?
me: well we are pushed off to the north by the coast
and we didn't settle THAT close to a/k
that site is 6 tiles from both of our capitals
so it's as much ours as theirs
at least as far as I see it - if they disagree that's just propaganda IMO
our capital is on the coast - jowy is about the same distance west as athlete is to the east
you guys are to the south
so yeah we feel really boxed in
IamJohn: idk, looking at screenshots I took it's only a couple tiles from their border
yeah, I can understand
me: well they're creative so they've already popped the 3rd ring
it's 6 tiles from their capital
i counted
IamJohn: lol
me: i mean i can understand why they didn't like it
that's why we offered compensation
IamJohn: Yeah, I understand
me: which they apparently were fine to pay lip service to
pretending to agree
out of the side of their mouth
while the rest of them lied about it
i mean to pretend to talk about compensation (and we both sent SEVERAL emails) while chopping out an army
okay that's fine
i can understand not wanting to tip off someone that you're going to attack
but the lies about the "trade route" roading and the "misclick" were what really got me going
IamJohn: Would you have been able to hold the city though if they hadn't done that?
me: yes
had we known that they were going to attack
we would have had 5 warriors in the city instead of only 3
and next turn we'd have had an archer
so it's certainly possible that they could have still taken it
but not a certainy by any stretch of the imagination
(also i don't know what your relationship is with them and i recognize that you could be pumping me for info to give to them. I understand if you do that though I would prefer otherwise, of course)
IamJohn: nah, I'm fairly closefisted when it comes to information
and if it makes you feel any better, at least we didn't lie when we attacked Mortius in the beginning of the game
Sent at 2:33 PM on Wednesday
IamJohn: Well is there much we can do to help you?
I don't think we can do anything terribly drastic, but allowing athlete to grow too powerful would be a rather large no-no
me: right
i was going to get to that
here's how i see things
(btw i would be very interested to see what they had to say after we "threatened" them if you can find it)
we are just about eliminated from any chance at winning this game
that was the point ithat i was trying to make to them
they can choke us for sure
but it's just going to make us want to hate them more
and if we can't win, we might as well ensure that THEY can't win
i thought it made sense (and maybe i was wrong) that they would want to leave us with some chance at winning
since if we have a chance at winning, we would be more likely to actually play to try and maximize that
rather than just playing for spite
but if they pillage us to the stone age (which is what they are apparently trying to do)
we have no reason to do anything but play for spite
and how likely are they going to be able to win if they have a civ actively trying to pevent it
when there are 7 other civs (yourselves included) that don't have that hindrance?
(sorry i'm a fast typer and have lots to say :-D)
IamJohn: nah, np :D
me: okay
so obviously, like you said, a strong Ottoman empire is not in your best advantage either
in fact, you are probabyl the civ with the most to lose if they become a behemoth
my opinion would be to settle aggressively towards them
and aid us in trying to get some settlements up
if we can get some of the border territory between us (like to our south - west of paris)
then we can really start becoming a major thorn in their side
to the point that they can't really fight you on their other side
if they can hamstring us, then they would be more free to fight you if needed (and with twice the land / pop / resources)
thoughts?
Sent at 2:39 PM on Wednesday
IamJohn: I agree with much of what you have to say. Athlete and Kalin definitely are interested in gobbling up what ever land they can, and that is bad for us.
me: right
IamJohn: How exactly would we help you though?
me: how far are you from their cap, and in what direction? they said SE of them
IamJohn: approxemetly the same distance your two capitals are
me: okay so about 10-12 tiles
IamJohn: and roughly SE
yeah
me: okay
IamJohn: everyone is that distance apart
me: well, i'll take that request back to the team for what you can do
obviously tech trading is off, so that's out
would you be able to spare any units? either worker / settlers / or military?
IamJohn: hmm
me: they took our source of copper, so we're down to archers at this point
IamJohn: that would be difficult
Would be interesting to see athlete's reaction I suppose...
me: right
i'm just brainstorming
IamJohn: nope, I understand
me: and you don't have to commit to anything at this point
honestly, i think any kind of overt help is not likely to be useful.
well, it would be USEFUL (to us)
but probably not very feasible
you could settle aggressively towards them
they can't fight both of us (i hope!)
IamJohn: We already have been settling aggresively
me: good
are you up to 3 cities yet?
IamJohn: it's one of the things that got them worried enough to attack you
we should in a turn or two
me: cool
do you have metal connected?
IamJohn: turn or two
me: ok
obviously a spear or two would be good since they have chariots
i guess more abstractly, what i have to say is that we are not likely to win this game, and we know that.
so we are looking for other "goals"
one of those could be ensuring the ottomans (who put us in htis position) don't win
or maybe helping a civ that helped us to win the game
so we could be very useful
if you were so inclined
just a thought....
IamJohn: indeed, quite interesting
I'll see what the rest of the team thinks
me: ok
were you able to find what they said in response to our email?
you dont' have to share it if you'd rather not
or if you'd prefer to just recap it
IamJohn: which email? the one after they took Paris?
me: the one after we "threatened" them
IamJohn: they just had a vague description of irritation
they weren't specific, sorry
me: shoot
i was hoping they told me to drop dead
IamJohn: lol
me: okay
so is your heavy RL time over?
or do you expect to continue to potentially be limited in diplomacy time for a period still?
IamJohn: well I can confirm that they don't like you much atm
me: them's the breaks i guess
IamJohn: After Friday I'll have a lot more time
me: okay
i need to run now
but let's keep in touch
IamJohn: I don't know how things will be for zeviz and IamJohn
me: like i said, i think we can be useful to you
IamJohn: sounds good
cool
me: and i will ask my team for any specifics
ttyl
Definitely worth a read but if yo udon't have the time - here's the highlights
1) Generally me sowing the seeds of distrust of the "evil" Ottomans
2) More importantly, we need to come up with a list of how they can help us
3) They (the Ottomans) don't like us
