[PB63 Spoilers] - Pindicator Unlocks 10 Year Achievement

[Krill]

I don't know if I'd say that.

I was in the PB1 snake pick and so many CRE leaders were picked it was absurd. Charismatic was always underrated though, and ORG people found boring, but yeah, lots of development. I'm most surprised at the lack of IMP, contrasted to sooooo asking why I even considered picking Joao as IMP was considered trash at that point. OTOH I could have picked Pagal of Inca so I accept that I chose poorly.

Here, Aztecs might be the only Myst civ as well, so it seems like a fair choice for him lots of building choices rather than the lol units choices.

[pindicator]

Maybe it's more of a full-circle thing then. Though I feel like ORG was a bit underrated when I started playing, at least among the players I remembered lurking & playing with at the time. For instance, I remember there was some surprise at me taking Roosevelt on a water map in my first solo PBEM.

[Krill]

That feels right. Players rotate between strategies as the mera evolves.

More fun breaking the meta though. Looking forward to you playing the leader/civ equivalent of a sledgehammer you regarded as pointless.

[mackoti]

I wanted to say I will fallow this. About ORG underated, well i think in my first game i picked ORG and after many games.

But right now because so many maps were very lush , and they are!!! ,IMP became the most powerfull trait, with I think IMP/ORG equivalent with Pacal from BTS.

Even in 59 I went with the IMP/AGG because i think  with  this maps you  are forced to this. Glad to see here no IMP, perhaps people know map is poor(I dont know if its poor).

[Thoth]

More fun breaking the meta though.

This.

[Krill]

So what's the scouting plan?

[pindicator]

First I want to scout around the pig & wheat to hopefully find a good 2nd city location. If everything is barren that way I'll then look around the clams and then just in general. After a second city has been located the first scout will go in one direction to find a neighbor - probably northward just based on the land we see. 2nd scout will go the opposite direction. I'm not sure yet if they will backtrack any after finding a neighbor, it will depend on how far off the neighbor is. But one of them will need to scout out "my" lands before going farther out.

Opening move I think will be NE-NE.

Anything you'd change?

[Krill]

Oh, you don't want to ask that question

So if you are happy with the micro and think it works to get a settler eot31, then I assume the plan is settle in place. If that is the case, the borders will pop eot24 with settling t0. So one could be reasonably certain of the territory mapped by culture expansions, and you can know when the two 15 hammer units are completed. Given this, it means that you don't need to know the second city location until t25, because of knowing where to send the warrior, and the location of horse on t18 should also impact that. Scouting north immediately doesn't help.with this . The only immediate knowledge it could.give is knowing who is up north, but with 12 tiles minimum separation the scout would have to wander for a while in any direction to find someone and then take time.to return to find a second city: I don't see the point right now. On that note, a good question to ask is "How do I lose from here?" And with CRE Greece the short answer is getting rushed, or screwing up tech and over expanding before Construction and HBR. Doesn't really matter who the neighbours are, even None Agg Rome isn't a concern in my eyes.

Given the clam is saltwater, we know that the body of water to the south is a minimum 10 tiles in size, probably bigger but not necessarily large enough for boats to be relevant. I suspect it is but can't plan on that. But it does mean that it may block passage of the scout. So if we know the size of culture borders on to, and the city is settled before the scout move, it should be possible to plan a rough route and a likely timeframe for what could be uncovered if the scout headed south along either the east or west coast of the sea, and then circled around the capital to find the possible second city locations. Given a 40% culture city with hills or peaks on the outer borders can grant a vision area between 9 and 11 tiles wide or tall a 2 move scout is unlikely to cover an entire circle in only 25 turns, hence the likely need for a second scout.

Tl;dr scouting north is bad because the information has no immediate value and makes to awkward to het was is needed. Need to scout around and I suggest start by going south.

[pindicator]

Actually thank you for going into that kind of detail. I was failing to think about the timing of the 3rd ring pop with CRE, and realizing we're going to have at least 4 rings of vision on t25 means that pattern makes a lot of sense

[Krill]

Yeah, the scouting is not obvious. Wth no barbs and no other player starting with a warrior, the scout should not get interdicted and as such we can be more sure of the movements (can't plan perfectly due to hills and forests but better than in a game where players start unknown distances apart and barbs are on).

My request is for T0 and T3 flying camera screenshots please, to map out where we think vision will be granted by borders to refer to. Also, content is good. I always like looking back at older games to look at the scouting and fogbusting choices. It feels like it is an area where most players don't do as much as they can do.

Also, would you mind if I posted snack pick analysis?