[SPOILERS] Serdoa goes to war II

[Krill]

Teaching.

[Serdoa]

Thanks Seven

Full picture of the empire (from T58, don't have one from last turn)

I hope the city names are readable. I have right now 11 cities, the last 4 planted on T55 (or T54),T56,T58,T59. Those do not have a Granary yet, as I either didn't have forests nearby, decided that improving the pigs is more important or - in one case - simply did not have a single one worker available to take care of it. If anyone is interested, that is Roskilde. It does have the whales (3/0/2), a farmed oasis (4/0/2) and a lumbermilled forested plains hill (0/4/0), so I was not to worried about not giving it approriate worker support. And at least the sheep is now - finally - getting improved as well, 5 turns behind schedule.

Now, there is a reason why I am behind schedule here. One of course I underbuilt workers (I have 12 now for my 11 cities, though 2 of them don't need any worker support, so realistically I am short 2-3 workers) but the other is that I decided on T54 to go for TGL. At that point I had a chop (one of two I used for TGL) incoming that with overflow yielded a total of 40 hammers, making me realize that TGL would only take a few turns WHILE I would grow to size 6 (7 with HG), which was the target size for that city anyway. Earlier that turn I had also found out that in a lucky coincidence I had setup everything in a way that my research, HG and my GP-pop would happen on T59. Looking over the TGL-plan I realized that I could finish it T59 (in fact, I could have finished T58 and without worker support, but only by triple whipping), but only with more worker support so that I could finish some mines on time. And thats why I didn't have a worker at Roskilde in time. This worker is now improving the pigs for Lödöse though, so everythings good.

Back to the granaries. As said, in the 4 newly planted cities, I simply hadn't time to get one. I have one more city without Granary though, thats Jelling. It produced a little bit of it before it got whipped for an axe. Then it produced a little bit more of it, before it got whipped for a workboat. I guess it will produce now the last few hammers missing for 20/40 .. before I will whip it

So, in totals:

11 Cities,
12 Workers,
6 Granaries
3 Trading Posts
1 Library
a shitload of wonders (SH, Pyramids, TGL, HG)

The big question now is how to proceed. I'll guess I make a new post with that.

@Ichabod

Right now I move around like a mad-man in PBEM34, giving the opponents a good shot at killing me before I even planted my city. I had decided before I got the save that I would move around a little bit first, but it seems Commodore already planted us on a pretty good spot anyway.

Yes, I know full well that your question was meant rethorical

[Serdoa]

Ok, so what to do next? I see the following priorities:

1.) Decide on the next techs (easy) and on the order to get them (uh...).

2.) Decide which cities are contributing to research and which are building units. Subsequently, decide on what to build in which city. Keep 1.) in mind for what will be available.

3.) Decide which cities to settle next and when.

4.) Decide on worker actions to help with all that outlined in the first 3 points.

So, to be quite honest, we are slowly but surely reaching the time of the game where I struggle the most. I think I do play a pretty good early game - if I don't try anything fancy and do C&D, so that I have a feeling what my position is relative to the others - but comes mid-game I start to have too many options and normally instead of beelining to the strongest I do from all a little bit (see PBEM25 and losing Shewdagon Paya). I will try to change that this game.

First misconception I have to get rid of: I do not have to win this game by the time Knights come around. In fact, I can defend all game long if I want and actually - leading the game - that is probably my best course of action!

Ok, lets look at research:

HBR was finished this turn and I have all of the first 6 techs. What other techs do I want?

[SIZE="3"]1. Metal Casting[/SIZE]

Defense: Triremes will probably be the most advanced seafaring units for quite some time. Right now though, afaik no one except Commodore can build those. And he has ... better things to do.

Infrastructure: Forges are the only way to get more production via buildings for quite some time. Those would be a foregone conclusion if I was IND. Being PHI/IMP though, I have to invest the full 80 hammers into them. Thats nearly 2 settlers. Also I don't need the happy right now.

Others: MC also opens Colossus and workshops. I'm not sure if I could get Colossus, even if I straight beelined right now for it. I'll need 4 turns research + 6-7 turns build time (Forge + Colossus) and I would expect Commist to have it finished by then. On the other hand... I would have expected them to have it finished like 10 turns ago.
Workshops are another benefit. Though not right now. I'll need at least Guilds and Chemistry (I don't think I can leave Slavery for Caste yet) before they are really worth it, imo.

Viking Conclusion: Good tech, but not first priority.

[SIZE="3"]2. Construction[/SIZE]

Defense: Catapults and WE. Thats my defense for Commist and I need it in like 15 turns. Maybe 20 now. I've talked quite a bit about that I feel, so no need to rehash it.

Infrastructure: Just Colosseums. +1 Happy for 53 hammers. I still need no happy and even if I would, I'd rather get my source of Gems and build Forges for an additional 3 happy (+1 gold via forge, +1 gems, +1 gems via Forge) then a Colosseum.

Others: With this I can build bridges. Thats nothing I need right this second, but I certainly want it before any real wars start.

Viking Conclusion: Necessary but not necessarily the next tech. It is half researched though, so can be 1-turned with not too much difficulty.

[SIZE="3"]3. Banking[/SIZE]

Defense: None, none at all.

Infrastructure: Banks. +50% Gold. My cap is making 17 gold right now (6 GM, 5 GP, 6 from 2x Merchant spec.). I want to get a market in there for an additional 2 merchant specialists, making it a total of 23 gold / turn. Market, Grocer, Bank should push that to 46 gold / turn. Right now my empire costs ~84 gold per turn.

Others: Mercantilism. In a SE (I still have not build a single cottage...). With Pyramids. I need that like tomorrow. Thats +66 beakers right there. And my break-even is somewhere around 80. Thats basically doubling my research. W A N T !

Viking Conclusion: Get it ASAP! That unfortunately means still some way to go as I need at least Poly -> PH -> Monarchy -> Feudalism -> MC -> Machinery -> Guilds before I can tech it. Thats 3489 beakers till I have it. With the typical 20% break-req bonus that means 2908 raw beakers. I do 80 / turn. Thats 36 turns Getting a GM last turn would have given me the opportunity to bulb Banking, shaving off some of those turns. Well, can't have everything.

[SIZE="3"]4. Feudalism[/SIZE]

Defense: Longbows. I'll flash a few together with a WE at Commist and hope he doesn't even come for me... yeah, right, that'll work Well, no matter what happens, several of those will hold a hill city. And if he dares to enter my culture, he will get catapulted and elephanted to death. To top it off, I get Vassalage, so that I can have 5XP units out of the gate - Guerilla I+II for example, giving +50% defenses (used against me in PBEM25).

Infrastructure: Nah, we need no stinking infrastructure.

Others: Apar from Vassalage, also Serfdom is to be found here. Though I don't see why I would ever adopt Serfdom over Slavery or Caste System. Both are better imo.

Viking Conclusion: Like Construction necessary. Unlike Construction on the way to Banking and mandatory for it. So yeah, we'll be getting this, and soon.

[SIZE="3"]5. Literature[/SIZE]

Defense: None.

Infrastructure: HE, NE, TGL. I want NE - in fact, I might beeline for it right away thinking about it. Thats my best shot in producing even more GP, especially if I can land TGL as well. Of course that makes Marble more desirable. Much more desirable in fact. With Marble and some timing, TGL will be a 4-turn build in the capital. As for HE, well, I miss a unit with the necessary XP for it right now, otherwise of course it would be great to have it.

Others: None. Directly at least. Indirectly I could push for Music afterwards for the GA. A GA-bomb right when Commist comes might very well be enough to let me kill his stack unexpectedly. Alternatively I could use him for a GA. I should make 31 base GPP in the cap at that point (2x scientist TGL, 2x scientiest from Lib-slots, 4x merchant from Market and Grocer, 2 for SH, 2 for TGL, 1 for NE, 2 from Mids). With NE, PHI and a GA thats 124 / turn. I'd probably be able to get 2.5 GP just from the cap in the GA.

Viking Conclusion: Either completely ignore it or push for it early.

[SIZE="3"]6. Code of Laws[/SIZE]

Defense: None or maybe 25% per city if I build Chichen Itza. I guess those 25% are only working pre-GP though? Anyhow, that might still be worthwhile, making a hill city LB a str 19.5 unit (6 base +25% for city, 25% for fortify, 50% for Guerilla II, 25% for being on a hill, 25% due to the hill, 50% for walls, 25% for Chichen Itza). Nah, who am I kidding? Thats 5 more LBs instead for those hammers.

Infrastructure: Courthouses. Some more Espionage wouldn't hurt but it is also not really necessary right now. The maintenance reduction is nice, but I am paying right now ~50 gold in maintenance. If I would build a Courthouse in every city, that would save 25 gold. For 880 hammers. Thats payback in 35 turns. Not sure on that one.

Others: Confu is still available. And it would get me Caste System as well. Now, I really want to get a religion sooner or later, but for Pacifism I need Philo (Taoism) anyway and so Theology might still be the wiser choice. Though as of now, I won't have time to spread any religion - survival is most important right now.

Viking Conclusion: Right now if I want to secure this religion, otherwise sometimes much later.

[SIZE="3"]7. Calendar[/SIZE]

Defense: None.

Infrastructure: MoM. Thats it. But thats a big wonder. +50% GA-lenght is strong, really strong. I missed out on this in PBEM25 by (if memory serves) 2-3 turns. That hurt... a lot. My whole defensive plan was reliant on being in 3 consecutive extra-long GAs. Missing out meant coming short on getting Grenadiers before my first defensive attack () and made me overall a much, much easier target. That said, I don't want to rely my gameplan on a single-wonder again, but if I can get this one, I will do it. That strenghtens the case for Marble again.

Others: I can build Plantation, finally getting the happy from the Incense. I have also Dyes and Spices in my borders and should soon get Bananas and Silks into them as well. Yeah, I guess this would be a good tech to get soon.

Viking Conclusion: Probably should tech it soon if I want to secure MoM. If not, then I probably should push it back till after Banking.

[SIZE="3"]8. Gunpodwer[/SIZE]

Defense: Well, Muskets. Fortified in a hill city with Guerilla II and just 40% cultural defenses (should be doable with Merc) should make them 21.6 strenght. This won't be penetrated for quite some time without extreme numbers or catapults. And if slow-movers are involved the defender can always attack first.

Infrastructure: None.

Others: Nothing of importance.

Viking Conclusion: Get it after Banking.

[Serdoa]

Now, having talked about the merits of certain techs, in which order to tech them? Lets make an overview with assumed turns it will take to tech it at break-even:

MC: 4 turns
Poly: 1 turn
PH: 0.5 turns
Monarchy: 2.5 turns
Feudalism: 6 turns
Machinery: 6 turns
Construction: 1.5 turns
Calendar: 3 turns
Mono: 1 turns
Theology: 4 turns
Code of Laws: 3 turns
Guilds: 9 turns
Banking: 6 turns
Aestetics: 2.5 turns
Literature: 2 turns
Music: 5 turns

I want Construction and Feudalism by T75 latest. I need Poly, PH, Monarchy for Feudalism. That makes a total of 11.5 turns. Make that 12 and that means we have just 4 turns till T75 to tech something else as well. That actually does not leave that many techs:

MC: 4 turns
Calendar: 3 turns
Code of Laws: 3 turns
Aestetics: 2.5 turns
Literature: 2 turns

So, either MC, Calendar, CoL or Aest+Lit. I think I tend to Aest+Lit right now. NE + TGLib have probably the strongest synergy with PHI. CoL would be a close second, but with not being able to switch out of Slavery just yet, it loses some of its appeal. And if I get GLib built fast enough, I might be able to shove some turns from the other techs, opening a possible Calendar (MoM) run. Ok, I think we are fine, tech-path

Aest -> Lit -> Construction -> Poly -> PH -> Monarchy -> Feudalism

Next up, which cities are doing what and where to settle new ones.

[Serdoa]

Ok, lets reuse the overview pic from T58 to decide on what the cities should do the next 15 turns and where to settle the next few.

The capital needs to get a market. That will take 5 turns if I fire the merchants. If I do that and run then 2 more merchants via the market I will have made the same gold in ~4 turns as if I hadn't built it. Of course that does not include the possibility to build wealth instead and also does not include the added beakers. Calculated "quickly" I should lose 105 gold by not working the two specs + building wealth with the remaining 13h/turn. But I will get a total of 41.5 commerce per turn with the market and running the two more specs while I would only get 30 by not building a market and using the two "free" citizens (as in not employed as market-specs) to build wealth. Means the lost gold (=commerce) will be made up in around 10 turns after finishing the market. Thats around T73, so I should have no delays in my other techs. Works for me.

After the market, this city should get TGLib and NE. And now it gets interesting. To build TGLib asap I will have to take all the merchant-specs onto the hills. That means the slots for the market are not used at all. Now, I have to question, does it make sense to build the market if I don't use the slots? Does it even make sense to build TGL in the capital? I feel in a GA you'd want 2-3 cities which can generate GP, so that you can count on 3-4 produced in a GA. Especially as PHI. Putting TGL somewhere else would certainly help with that.

Ok, I make 32 GPP / turn in the capital. I will make 44 once I put the market in there. Another city could get NE, TGL and run 2 scientists for a total of 45 GGP / turn. Thats fine yes? I could of course put all in the capital and get 75 GPP / turn. Plus 12 GPP in the other city. Putting everything in the capital seems to win out, but I think due to the counter-reset, I should actually produce more GP the other way round. God, my head hurts.

Ok, got the save now and have no clue what to do with the capital. Guess I'll take a look around first and start thinking about this after I got something to eat.

[Ceiliazul]

After the market, this city should get TGLib and NE.
...
Does it even make sense to build TGL in the capital? I feel in a GA you'd want 2-3 cities which can generate GP, so that you can count on 3-4 produced in a GA. Especially as PHI. Putting TGL somewhere else would certainly help with that.

I agree with this, but there was a post over at CFC with serious math analysis that concluded it was beneficial to load up one city... there were breakpoints which I can't remember (something like 'if the GP city has 4x more gpp then no other city can catch up')

[Serdoa]

Hm, do you remember if that was in the War Academy? If not I guess there is not much chance that I actually will find it. Not that I won't try, but I know there is one in the WA, which I will go and read after I did the turn report. So, lets start with that:

First thing after all the wonder movies had played, I checked on my troops in Commists land:



Hey, look, its a X-Bow. That means I have to retreat, neither my axe nor my chariot can kill that damn thing and even together won't get odds at all. But lets first see what he does in the capital.



Or maybe we don't need to see what he does there



Oh, there is the missionary. It seems he moved him back from the facing of the unit. Not sure why, maybe he thinks about resettling? But surely he will resettle gold first? Well, anyway, I can for sure get out of there with the chariot. The axe is also on its way out and shouldn't be catched either.

Scooters nearby scout is having a funny name



Uh, mind if I come checking on your cities next? But first there is something else to investigate



It seems someone has settled for the gold on the other side of his lands. I moved the chariot onto the deer. Lets see what defenders (if any) he has in that city.

In domestic news, I have finished some units first before I did anything else and also



Its worth ~12 beakers at 0%, settling him would yield 11.25. Slightly better therefore, even if I miss out on the 1 hammer when I would have settled him, especially as I will not run 0% most of the time (though I do 42 beakers a turn at 0% while earning ~40 gold).

After turn ended my borders in the elephant city popped, and look what we have here



Thats Lewwyn with a settler, guarded by a chariot. I wonder if he still settles the spot, despite me occupying the deer. Not that I can ever improve it, but if he settles where he is right now, then I probably can keep it from him. We'll see.

Demos

Surprise, I am leading.

[Serdoa]

Found the article in the War Academy. Though reading the following forum discussion was even more interesting. Not that it helped me at all to make a decision

Well, to top it off, with my Academy-build in the capital now, I probably should put TGL there anyway, because it will yield 6 more beakers then everywhere else. And the capital pretty surely gets Oxford as well, making that another 12 beakers more. Probably I should simply built it in the cap and thats it - running through some numbers in excel showed that it pretty much makes no difference in total GP generated over time, so the added beakers are probably worth it. Thing is, splitting it off is actually much easier in terms of production. I can get pretty high numbers in the cap, but thats not helping if I have to stop working several specialists for that. All that shiny new stuff would then have to pay back the lost commerce first - and that all within the next 15 turns. But I will need at least 14 to build all that stuff

Well, whatever. I'll probably not going to decide that today anyway and my wife wants to use the computer now anyway, so I'll close this post with an overview picture of my city screens, stitched together:

[Ceiliazul]

That's a cool stitch job! What software did you use to do that?

[Serdoa]

That's a cool stitch job! What software did you use to do that?

Just the snipping tool from windows for the screenshot of the city screen (making all citizens specialists first) and then Paint to put those single screens together, making it a big empire overview map. Probably too much work, especially as I had to cut some of those screenies and drag them then in position and had to do that mostly 2-3x per screenie because I cutted of too much or marked the part of the image not exactly and had some white border with it (you can't put screenies in the back or the front in Paint, let alone have transparency...).