[Spoiler] Suboptimal's Next Attempt at Lurker Frustration

[Alhambram]

For us a religious city state is only useful for 13 turns when it gives us 25 faith needed for Pantheon, afterwards it is just only good for capture.
Advantage of this is that we don't need to put God Kings policy card when we completes Code of Laws, just go Urban Planning for +1 in all cities from start.

Regarding pantheon, finding some good ivory sources make situation more complicated since resources for top three Pantheon picks seem to be evenly distributed around our position.
I rather scout map more and ultimately make decision when Pantheon arrives.

Argee with your plan to send warrior to north to find barb camp before it causes more problem. Slinger can stick with settler duty, however if scout is hanging around next turn and you can hit with slinger, just do it for exp points for slinger plus easier to kill off scout in future.

About purchasing tile W for campus, only if you are really really sure that you build campus soon, then I don't see disadvantage of buying that tile.

[suboptimal]

Turn 9

It was my hope that the city-state would send its representatives out to meet me so that my warrior could save a couple of turns moving in the “wrong” direction, but alas, they’re off gallivanting elsewhere. My warrior moves to the borders and we meet




First to meet them and they want the inspiration for Military Tradition. Monasteries are good for extra housing but we won’t be needing that. The tile SE of the city is fish – note the 21yield. There’s no resource icon but the tooltip for the tile states that there’s fish there. The city-state hasn’t started building either a monument or a granary yet, so likely has been working on units. We will, at some point, need to take the city and get an RND in there. The desert might also make a good spot for an Encampment down the road as well.

Up north the scout has moved east into the jungle. In counting out the turns if I move east to attack with the slinger I reach the northwestern bananas with three turns to go before the settler is out. That’s enough time, I think, to divert for a turn. I move and attack, revealing a jungle tile northeast of the cattle. Next turn the slinger will move up to the coast over the open plains.

I hold off buying the plains tile I mentioned last turn. My plan remains to place a Campus there once Writing is completed. However, holding the gold would let me buy a good second ring tile at the new city immediately after founding rather than waiting. I may also wind up holding off finishing Writing for a bit depending on when I meet an opponent for the eureka.

In score news the others ave all gained their second population. Kaiser has completed his first tech.

[Alhambram]

If Kaiser already completed tech that means that he has extra source of science, some tiles for example geothermal fissure or tea resource. But judging by our meeting of city state this turn, I think that Kaiser got science city state nearby his empire.

Regarding Armagh our nearby city state, we can attack city over merely three land tiles only and it seem likely that it spammed units as you said.
Therefore why not use 100% maritimes industries policy card (need to finish foreign trade civic) to produce 2 galleys in city #2 not only for shipbuilding eureka but also as extra force to capture Armagh?

[suboptimal]

The way the science math works out he's likely got a map-based source rather than a city-state. If it's a city-state he would have had to meet them during his Turn 4 in order to generate the right amount of science and that seems unlikely given past map setups for PBEMs here.

[suboptimal]

Turn 10

Ichabod has not completed a tech so he’s either slowballing or researching Astrology (I’d be doing the latter). Rankings show we’re second for faith generation, behind Woden. Woden’s earned 3 era points and CMF completed a civic last turn.

Animal Husbandry is complete. So, where are the horses? Well, they’re kinda in the way for the fantasy pin map:




That’s where I was going to put the Campus. That’s fine, though, as the Campus can go NW of London for a +2 adjacency. The choice here is to do Pottery → Writing or Mining → Bronze Working first. Either way these are the next four techs on the to-do list. I go for Pottery first, figuring it’d be a toss-up between the two.

Warrior moves back to the northwest. Slinger covers the open ground and finds whales along the coast:




In theory a city settled NW of the bananas will have fresh water and at least a +3 adjacency for an RND unless the tile W of the whales is also a reef. We’ll get a look next turn when the slinger goes up on the hill. If there’s a second sea resource up here then it becomes a debate as to which coast becomes the better option for City #2. The slinger will continue west despite my curiosity about what’s north of those elephants – I’ll let the warrior sort that out as it’ll be across the Thames in three turns.

There is also land NE of the coastal elephant. The warrior should have time to get there before we have to pick the pantheon, though, so we can see if the camp pantheon is worth it. I will say that I do remain tempted by the high production yield that would be available.

The current plan at London will be to go slinger → monument after the settler completes. I would consider reversing the order for another 3 turns of culture generation but with that scout sighting I don’t think that’s a good idea.

[Alhambram]

I rather would build warrior instead 2nd slinger, warriors are more effective against barbs and we already got one slinger for eventual eureka.
My experience in SP games is when I got rid of barb camp, another new one shows up other side of capital, warriors are much better for cleaning barb camps.

[suboptimal]

That's an idea. We'd eventually need three archers for the machinery eureka though there's nothing stopping me from building those after Archery is in.

[Alhambram]

Also instead monument why not a builder, this way we can get craftsmanship eureka earlier and also since we seems to be at second place after Woden faithwise, we would surely pick one of two cultural pantheons which can be used for early culture instead monument?
Though I am also somewhat tempted by ivory tiles, if you discover more tiles nearby where you can build camps, it might good idea to pick Goddess of Hunt and start monument instead builder as you did plan orginally.

[suboptimal]

Turn 11

All quiet with notifications. Kaiser has completed his first civic, we’re the only two to have completed a tech. Wonder if the others are all gunning for a religion? I suppose Woden is likely going for Sailing first, in which case he should complete that in a turn or two if his capital is coastal. If I had to guess I’d say that CMF and Kaiser are likely neighbors and working a common resource. CMF has jumped to the lead in faith generation so he’s likely met a religious city-state (that makes three).

Warrior moves north across the open grasslands, finds a regular grassland tile between the elephants and cattle at the River Thames. There’s jungle hills NE and SE of the elephants. The terrain there can be seen in the screenshot below. I’ll see what’s on the other riverbank next turn but I think a grassland plant for a city would be a good idea. Slinger tops the hill, reveals a coastal bananas:




That bananas is on fresh water with the lake there being a bit more visible. Whether that’s a 1-tile lake or an inlet off a larger lake remains to be seen. My current inclination is to move W to the forest next turn and then SW to the southern banana tile. That would get the slinger in London right before the settler completes and give me visibility over the area around that lake. I could go onto the northern bananas but then the slinger arrives at London the same turn the settler would be ready to move southwards (if that’s the ultimate direction). I also don’t care (for right now) what’s on the tile 2NW of the lake – if the coast NW of the bananas doesn’t have a sea resource the settler is heading south for the double-resource location. I do think, though, that I should start prepping another round of fantasy dotmapping….just based on what I can see there are five likely reasonable city locations to settle.

This does feed into the pantheon discussion a bit more, as now we’re up to 4 plantation and 4 pasture resources. However, I think the camp pantheon remains in play given those northern elephants. That should get sorted out in another 4-6 turns.

I think that I’ll go with Alhambram’s recommendation of a warrior instead of a slinger. Regarding builder before monument....hmmm...in running the numbers the "opportunity cost" of builder first is 6 not earned. That's not too bad. The extra production from a quarry and a pasture helps things out and gets the monument done in 5 turns. In thinking further out I think that the builder's third charge could be spent improving the sheep (T33). That should be in time to get the Craftsmanship bonus and gives City #2 two 3 tiles to work early. Slightly unorthodox would be to harvest the rice into City #2 with the third charge. That would have the city at 4 population on Turn 36. I'm planning on going builder first at the new city and the sheep/rice choice doesn't speed that up any. It would delay the Craftsmanship inspiration from T33 to T38 but the extra pop and having a population to work the crab gold earlier (and have a second district slot for an Encampment or second Campus) might be worth taking that approach. We've got time to ponder that, though.

[suboptimal]

City Planning

I had nothing to do tonight so I started looking around at what I can see of the map and took a closer look at putting City #2 on the coast. Well, I don’t think that’s a good idea with what there is available to the east and northeast. This also ties into just about everything else….here goes.

My current thinking is to go Code of Laws → Foreign Trader → Early Empire on the civics tree. Both cities would start settlers right around the time Early Empire completes and try to have cities #3 and #4 founded in the early 50’s. Assuming no Foreign Trade inspiration we need 102 culture to complete those civics. The builder out of London is putting down a quarry and a horse pasture, in that order, with the pasture being done on Turn 27 and would have a charge to do something with. With that in mind...

South Coast

The city would found on Turn 19. The issue down here is production – we need to buy tiles in order to get 2 tiles, improved or “native”. If we put a city down here it wouldn’t get out a settler until the mid 50’s. That’s too late from my perspective. Skipping this city now doesn't slow anything down in terms of Celestial Navigation. That typically comes in around Turn 65 or so in my test games and we'd still be able to get the eureka in plenty of time to complete the tech.

Thames Elephants

This city would found on the grassland between the cattle and the elephants east of London. It would spend the first five turns working the cattle and then start working the elephants at 2 population. The city builds would start out Monument → Settler. There are two options for the pantheon selection (Turn 22) and the builder’s third charge.

a) God of the Open Sky, Pasture the Cattle (T33)
b) Goddess of the Hunt, Camp the Ivory (T35)

The city finishes a settler on EoT46 (b) or EoT47(A) and the capital completes its settler EoT48. The only real difference here is culture generation – I’d be making 2 per turn more under option (a). Under option (b) I’d send one settler north to the coast elephants (T53)and one settler south to the river mouth (T52) and be pulling in +1 per turn vs. (a). London would follow its settler with a builder for the south coastal city. Thames Elephants woud likely get out a couple of units, maybe a builder for local improvements and then build an Encampment. Pingala would go straight into this city while Magnus went into the capital for the fourth settler.

Coast Elephants

This city would found on the currently unknown (and hopefully) land tile NE of the coastal elephants on Turn 21 and I’d take God of the Hunt on Turn 22. It’d start working the 141 elephants immediately upon founding. The city would go builder → monument → warrior → settler with its own builder putting down camps on Turns 31 and 33. The bad news is that barring an improvable food resource up here the city’s population growth would be slow. Early Empire completes on Turn 41 and its settler would complete EoT46 with the capital following EoT48. This city’s settler would head for the Thames Elephants site (T51) while London’s went to the south coast (T52). As before, London would follow its settler with a builder for the south coast location. London’s initial builder would follow its settler in order to improve a land resource (or chop a jungle for pop & production) with its remaining charge.

In this instance I’d put Pingala in London until Magnus was available, at which time I’d move Pingala over to the Thames river city and put Magnus in London.

My inclination is to go with Coast Elephants. Yes, it’s against conventional wisdom to found a low-food city early and we still have no idea what’s up there. However, the city gets a lot done in its first 25 turns (a builder for two camps, a monument, a warrior, a settler and 100 income) and that trade-off might be worth it. The extra milpower from the land units and galleys would also make our defensive situation a bit better.

Alhambram/Thrantar, thoughts? The warrior will be able to get to the area near Coast Elephants around the same time the settler completes to better inform our decision.