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well, we can do a test maybe and see how portugal/china does if china goes victor 3 asap and throws everything into galley spam. netherlands can plausibly do the same thanks to the +2 culture from incoming trs so we will probably have access to one of them at pick 7 at least. maybe if we are sufficiently careful with where we send our TRs and if i make a carpet of promoted galleys to support you we can be ok?
i dunno. i'd be pretty sad not to play portugal but it's not like phoenicia is anything short of phenomenal itself
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dammit why did norway have to be thrawn of all people lmaoooo
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Could be worse, it could be me as Norway.:D
I´d say let´s take Portugal and plan to defend it with pick 7.:D
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well you as norway would be amazing bc you're on my team 
agrees but let's sleep on it + test tmr first before committing?
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Yeah, the map needs to be done anyway. Let´s not rush it.
August 17th, 2022, 07:09
(This post was last modified: August 17th, 2022, 07:51 by ljubljana.)
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the chevalier team is guaranteed two of indonesia, england, phoenicia if they want them. eeeewwwww
but if we leave portugal then chev could potentially take, like, phoenicia-portugal  ......
TAD, maybe you should consider victor 3 before pingala as portugal in addition to me? you need neither tech nor culture acceleration in the early game to accomplish your main goal of 5 lighthouses and 13 traders. but we DO need as many embolon galleys as possible to not die. and your promoted galleys upgrade to double-promoted naus which would end the norway threat, and with free inquiry you should get there pretty quickly if you really beeline it
norway is SUCH an all-in pick at first since a combo of norway + upgrade civ is utterly dependent on norway getting pillages to function. therefore i predict thrawn to play it like an all-in pick and do nothing but spam 2 longships every turn, perhaps literally for the whole game, with victor 3 before pingala and twilight valor if he can avoid era score. the only way to counter that is with our own embolon ships i think, and hope they are enough of a deterrent that thrawn goes for whichever other team lacks phoenicia and gets bogged down there....
so i think portugal does wanna pause infinite trader spam early to build the GP and finish off victor. but.....thst does open up the hilarious portugal-only move of buying the ancestral hall, maybe for both civs  that is one way to leverage early gold to race ahead in foodhammers
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I'm thinking Portugal is a honeypot now, and I don't think we want to deal with that. Whoever takes them will almost certainly be Thrawn's preferred target, and there are too many cases where the traders will be indefensible. I'd gladly gamble on them working out if they fell to 7 (they won't) but at #2? No.
We should take one of the classic naval power civs here, and plan on a support civ ay 7. Any of England, phonecea, or Indonesia would be perfectly appropriate.
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You guys should do a test game playing against each other with Norway and Portugal, see if defending those far flung traders is likely to be possible. I'd volunteer to hop on and play Norway against you if I had time, but I definitely don't
August 17th, 2022, 08:16
(This post was last modified: August 17th, 2022, 08:19 by ljubljana.)
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well, at least we KNOW about the norway/portugal thing and are laser-focused on countermeasures. what happens if someone takes portugal who doesn't know and gets 8 traders pillaged? then thrawn really does get 1600 free gold in the classical era and runs away w the game 
also if we take a power naval civ woden MUST take portugal or indonesia (both weak to norway themselves!) or chevalier gets the utterly terrifying portugal/indonesia pair....
i dunno, the portugal/norway interaction seems like it will inject 2k gold into this game in the t80 range in favor of SOMEone, either the portugal team or the norway team. it's a little hard to see someone winning who is NOT the team that wins that pot unless they have tons of gold generation elsewhere, eg a phoenicia/england pair, or pick indonesia and a gold civ and pull off a very large jong rush. so maybe portugal still makes sense as the only single-civ pick that gives us a viable win condition WITHOUT relying on the others' civ picks to break right and let a power civ drop to 7th?
on the other hand, if we take indonesia there are 4 really strong gold civs in phoenicia, england, portugal, and spain still on the board. chev and woden must then use ALL their picks on them or we get a viable jong rush :D
August 17th, 2022, 08:20
(This post was last modified: August 17th, 2022, 08:29 by ljubljana.)
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(August 17th, 2022, 07:42)williams482 Wrote: You guys should do a test game playing against each other with Norway and Portugal, see if defending those far flung traders is likely to be possible. I'd volunteer to hop on and play Norway against you if I had time, but I definitely don't
Yes We Should
maybe even today instead of what we were previously gonna do?
if so i wanna be norway :D
i'm pretty confident i know thrawn's exact build order which is warrior-settler-settler-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship-longship so at least we can sim this pretty accurately
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