The Dark arts - C&D Master Thread

[kjn]

T99 - 400 BC

Cliff's Notes: WPC built an archer or barracks. The Spanish grew 2 pop, to 22. Apolyton grew 2 pop, to 43. The Germans grew 1 pop, to 26. CivFr researched a classical tech, possibly Construction. CivPlayers grew 3 pop and researched Archery. CFC received land score and grew 2 pop, to 44. Univers grew 5 pop, to 42.

Demos:

Score table

Team	Score change	Pop	Tech	Land
RB	27	15 (+6; 55 total)	12 (Monarchy)
Spanish	5	5 (+2; 22 total)
Apolyton	2	2 (+1; 42 total)
Germans	3	3 (+1; 26 total)
CivFr	12		12 (classical)
CivPlayers	13	7 (+3; 29 total)	6 (Archery)
CFC	10	5 (+2; 43 total)		5 (Mantra 2-ring 8 tiles; 86 total)
Univers	12	12 (+5; 42 total)

Score analysis

F8 analysis gives 14 new global pop points, and the rival total population rose with 609000. Rival worst (Germans) rose with 27000. There are 8 land tiles to assign, and GNP analysis shows that one more of our known civs knows Archery (besides WPC and Univers).

Spanish: KwaDukuza grew to size 2 in 8t, and I put in another pop growth for them, giving them 22 total.

Germans: Rival worst in population rose with 27000, so I put in a growth from 3 to 4 in one of their cities. This brings them to 26 pop, and another 1000 in power, fitting with the increase to rival best in power.

CivFr: Rival best in population didn't change, so they researched a classical tech in 6t.

CFC: From map info we can see that Mantra grew to 5 and Lakshmi to 4, for 43 total pop. Analysis of APTmod culture data tells us that Mantra should expand borders from its monument about now, so CFC gets the 8 land tiles, which also fits with my reading of the way CFC has expanded.

CivPlayers: With Archery already known by Univers per last turn's GNP analysis upon contact, CivPlayers is the only remaining candidate. That leaves 7 score, for 3 pop growths. They have 29 pop total.

Apolyton: With no land tiles to assign, Apolyton gets a pop growth, to 42. Their capital has also been confirmed as size 10, since it is visible on the top cities screen.

Univers: The remaining 5 global pop fits with the 12 score increase for Univers, bringing them to 42 pop.

Power analysis

Rival global power increased with 21000, of which 8000 came from pop and 6000 from tech, leaving 7000 from other causes. WPC shows a power increase of 3000, which I put down as an archer. I thus pencil in Construction for CivFr.

Apolyton's city, Univers's whip, and CivPlayers' capital

Before our revolt, Mansa's Muse was the #5 on the top cities screen, but after the revolt it was replaced by Tenochtitlan, size 7. Since it was was whipped from size 8 to 5 on T97, it must have grown to 6 on T98 and 7 this turn. That makes it more unlikely that CivPlayers whipped a settler that turn, though not impossible. Eg, whip with 35/36F in the box to size 5 and 35/30. Grow to size 6 as the turn rolls, with 20/32 in the box. A city with wet corn, farmed banana, and grass deer is at +11F, so with another grass farm or a flood plains it reaches +12F.

Apolyton settled their seventh city, going to 43 pop and claiming 7 land tiles.

Of particular note is the new rival best in trade: up to 30 from 12 earlier in the turn, a not insignificant boost to someone's economy. I think it's Apolyton, and that they researched Currency on T95 (not Calendar), and that they now have trade routes with CivFr's two very large cities, for 12 trade routes of 2C and 2 of 3C, but that's little more than an informed guess.

Univers performed a 3-pop whip, lowering their pop to 39 and the global power with 2000. The global population shrank with 247000, so it was an 8->5 whip. Probably a settler, but one can never be sure.

[waterbat]

Civ players. Whipped twice this morning. Can someone log in and grab demos?

[kjn]

It was two one-pop whips, so not that critical. CivPlayers whipped Tenochtitlan to size 6 and Tlaxcala to size 2. But anyway:

I find it amusing that Mansa'a Muse manages to edge into the top-five cities despite being smaller than most other cities and being in anarchy (ie no FPC values) - all due to culture.

[kjn]

CFC 3-pop-whipped Daivagasi (6->3) before ending their T99. Probably a settler build. They have 41 pop now.

[NobleHelium]

Can we get the Dossiers updated please...the techs are quite out of date.

[kjn]

Can we get the Dossiers updated please...the techs are quite out of date.

I know, but there is only so much I can manage to do.

[kjn]

T100 - 375 BC

Cliff's Notes: Extremely tentative notes for now. I recommend a look at the table below.

Demos and cities:

Score table

Team	Score change	Pop	Tech	Land
RB	7			7 (+10 tiles; 110 total)
WPC	6		6 (Masonry)
Spanish	7	2 (+1; 23 total)		5 (+8 tiles; 77 total)
Apolyton	19	7 (+3; 46 total)	12 (classical)
CivFr	10	7 (+3; 44 total)		3 (+4 tiles; 94 total)
CivPlayers	6		6 (ancient)
CFC	8	7 (+3 pop; 44 total)		1 (+1 tile; 87 total)
Univers	3	3 (+1 pop; 40 total)

Score analysis

F8 analysis gives a global pop increase of 12, but that includes CFC's newest city, which probably is a captured barb city, so max 11 pop scored as the turn rolled. There are also 7 land points to assign from T80 (plus 2 leftovers). GNP analysis gives no new techs with known tech bonuses. Claimed land increased with 24 tiles.

CFC: From map info they grew Indira to size 11, Lana to 8, and Raj to 4, for 44 total pop and 7 score. Then they probably captured a size 2 barb city, now named Bono, for 45 total pop and an additonal 3 score. The land tile from T80 is probably the tile surrounded by their culture we noted earlier.

WPC: I had them noted down for a totem pole on T71 which should expand borders on T80, but it appears to have been built in their capital. They were rival worst in land on T76-82. They would also get 5 score from +2 pop, leaving an ancient tech in 4t. Since they've told us they planned for Construction, I note down Masonry as confirmed for them. I note down Animal Husbandry on T49 for now, but that means they must have lost a warrior that turn too.

CivFr: Rival best in population increased with 339000, fitting with cities growing to 13, 6, and 3, and since the top city now is size 13, that's a good fit (technically, it's also possible with five cities growing, but that requires three size 1 cities growing to 2, and CivFr only has two such cities). That leaves 3 score, which must come from land.

That leaves 5 pop and 7 land tiles to assign, leaving circa 18 points for tech.

CivPlayers: I note down a 1-turned Fishing for now for them.

Spanish: I note down a pop increase to (to 23 pop) and 8 land tiles (5 score) for them, since Apolyton can't receive enough land tiles, but notes that this fits poorly with the increase of 1000 in rival worst power.

Apolyton: A classical tech in 2t and 3 pop increases (to 46). The tech is tentatively Aesthetics, since the power increase this turn is rather small. Apolyton's current tech path is extremely tentative right now, they could easily have Literature now.

Do note that this score distribution is very tentative and is just a best estimate, and there are various constraints that needs to be taken into account, like that the rival best and worst in land on T80 were 94 and 57 tiles, and that rival worst in power increased with 1000.

Power analysis

Global total power increased with 25000. CFC increased their power with 10000, and the Germans with 6000, leaving 9000.

Pop accounted for 2000 to Apolyton, CivFr, and CFC each, and 1000 to Univers. I note down two chariots for CFC, and an axe to the Germans. That leaves 4000 from other causes, but an additional 1000 must go to rival worst. Unless there are unit losses somewhere.

Other

We have a trade connection to CivFr somehow. Not sure how that goes - must be via a river somewhere, but no idea which team it passes through.

[kjn]

On my way out, back late tonight or tomorrow.

Univers continues to expand, up to 11 cities now, and 41 pop. The city claimed 5 tiles, and they're the new rival best in land, with 142 tiles.

[kjn]

CivPlayers did a 3->2-whip before ending their turn, down to 26 pop now.

I'm actually somewhat concerned about their 1-pop whips. They've done 10 such since T92 (we met T91), but I can't say I've seen any matching power increases from units. I'm a little worried that they have whipped out units or barracks, only to immediately swap to some other stuff, leaving the finished unit in the queue. That way they can push put a large army of mixed units very quickly, and without paying maintenance costs for the units in the meantime.

[novice]

CivPlayers did a 3->2-whip before ending their turn, down to 26 pop now.

I'm actually somewhat concerned about their 1-pop whips. They've done 10 such since T92 (we met T91), but I can't say I've seen any matching power increases from units. I'm a little worried that they have whipped out units or barracks, only to immediately swap to some other stuff, leaving the finished unit in the queue. That way they can push put a large army of mixed units very quickly, and without paying maintenance costs for the units in the meantime.

It's a bit soon to do that now, though? They can only have one unit of each type prebuilt like that in any city.