Quote:I wasn't referring to just our immediate neighbors. WPC may be just fine delaying action against us (or not), and CFC we have a NAP with. I'm thinking more along the lines of one of the competitive teams (maybe Civ Fr?) not immediately bordering us ...
Going by the apparent civ placement pattern, there are two more civs one to our NW and one to our SW that could be just as near. So we still have two unknown neighbors just as close.
I am not saying we should wet our pants about it, just telling people that its around 10 turns or tiles not some long distance away. I agree that we should not fear an attack from a second ring of neighbors.
mh
This I acknowledge and agree with. Can't wait to explore with some WCs...Now, if only we could find the damned horses...
(October 17th, 2012, 18:45)luddite Wrote: This might be a crazy idea, but what about using the oracle for mathematics? I know it's super cheap compared to metal casting, but it would be helpful immediately for more chop hammers, and it would get us currency, calendar, and the HG all faster.
Actually, what about not math but currency? It's only very slightly less beakers than MC but I would give us a bigger boost I think. Between HR and Currency we'd be able to expand at a rate that no other team could keep up with without crashing their economy. The downside is we have to wait a bit longer to build the Oracle while we research mathematics, but we could always get it close to completion and then let our C&D department tell us whether to cash it in for say MC or wait while we finish off mathematics.
I actually think oracling currency would be ideal, except I wouldn't expect the oracle to last that long. If we wanted to do that, I think we'd have to delay monarchy and monotheism, and go for it immediately. Or we could just oracle monarchy.
Yeah, I'm going to put in my 2c for attempting to Oracle currency and relying on our C&D department to let us know if we need to get it earlier and take MC. I just don't see the appeal of MC on this map. Colossus, from what we've explored so far, looks meh and our expansion (which is what we need to be focused on now) is limited by commerce on this map, not hammers. Currency is the best tech available after monarchy to allow us to keep expanding faster than other teams in my opinion. That being said, getting currency isn't as guaranteed as MC would be, but with our C&D department we should be able to know if we need to take a backup option.
At least for me, I think Oracle for Currency > Using hammers for workers/settlers > Oracle for MC. That could obviously change if we start seeing a lot more water where we want to settle and Colossus becomes more significant, but for me I'm much more concerned about the commerce side of expansion than the hammers side on this map.
(October 18th, 2012, 09:46)Sullla Wrote: Doing all sorts of gyrations to try and hide our research/Demographics performance would be an example of that.
* I don't think that banking gold is a good idea at all. Gold in the bank does nothing for us until it's converted into techs. Sitting on a big pile of gold just wastes our investment in commerce, and robs us of our advantages.
* If we research techs to 99% completion and stop research there, to avoid piling up score points, that has a similar effect. We don't get the benefit of the tech, whatever it is, and we set ourselves up to get something like 5 techs in 5 turns, which would look even worse to anyone watching the numbers. It's actually better to space them out over time.
The best solution is to run steady state break-even research, which looks far less intimidating on the Demos screen. Unfortunately we have to get more total beakers first to avoid losing out on rounding errors; we need to get up to roughly 100 commerce to hit this point. In 25-30 turns, we will probably be ready to do this, but for the moment 100%/0% is superior. Given the limited contact with the rest of the world, I would argue we should stop worrying about this and just concentrate on playing our game.
(October 18th, 2012, 13:40)SevenSpirits Wrote: As has been pointed out multiple times now, we don't gain any advantages from getting fishing and priesthood 2t earlier either! No advantages are being "robbed".
What it does do is allow us to change our minds.
Playing with the slider to hide our GNP is a mugs game - it doesn't work. I am against completing fishing until we need the tech so that our score (the most obvious indication of our strength) doesn't increase.
Sure, sure - score isn't a good measure of strength, but it is the most obvious one.
Now, if delaying fishing delays some other tech past when we want it (eg AO is ready to build library on T60 but writing won't be finished until T62) then I can be talked off my support for not finishing fishing.
I don't think that almost completing a whole slew of techs is a good idea either. Just tech what you need, when you need it with the minimal amount of delay (ie 1 turn). Having a tech a few turns before you need it is called an opportunity cost.
Sullla Wrote:Sitting on a big pile of gold just wastes our investment in commerce, and robs us of our advantages.
I don't see any waste at all. A commerce unit into gold that is later converted into beakers to yield a tech just at the right time is exactly equal to a commerce unit straight into a beaker to yield a tech a few turns early. No waste at all.
I have finally decided to put down some cash and register a website. It is www.ruffhi.com. Now I remain free to move the hosting options without having to change the name of the site.
(October 22nd, 2014, 10:52)Caledorn Wrote: And ruff is officially banned from playing in my games as a reward for ruining my big surprise by posting silly and correct theories in the PB18 tech thread.
I would certainly support Oracling Currency. I just don't think we can get Math before it falls. (We could get Math on the same turn as we finish the wonder, keep in mind.)
While we are throwing techs out there, any chance we could Oracle Civil Service? Would we be able to research Math and Code of Laws in time? I would assume we couldn't, but it would be incredible if we could.
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0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
I don't think there is any benefit to hiding your stats completely unless you're playing really weak players or you are purposely playing terribly.
Playing optimally is a zero sum allocation of resources. If you make your GNP look bad, what would have been those GNP would just show up somewhere else. Just try and obfuscate as well as you can while playing as well as you can. People are going to figure it out sooner or later or won't care. After all, at Poly and our own PBs, people attack opportunistically or because they don't like you. Did Imperio get dog piled because they had double gold? Nope, RB had to fight everyone because the Templars did not like you and Imperio wanted to take advantage of that.
So if opportunism and not being liked are the main reasons people get dog piled (atleast before later in the game where there's no space and you have to fight someone to win) you should address those directly by being stronger than your neighbors and not having crap diplo/pissing people off.
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(October 18th, 2012, 19:19)NobleHelium Wrote: I would certainly support Oracling Currency. I just don't think we can get Math before it falls. (We could get Math on the same turn as we finish the wonder, keep in mind.)
Monarchy is cheap, not worth spending Oracle on.
What about getting going for mathematics right away (after fishing anyway), then priesthood and building the oracle? Having Mathematics would also reduce the effective cost of the oracle. The downside being that it would delay monarchy and monotheism.
(October 19th, 2012, 01:44)luddite Wrote: What about getting going for mathematics right away (after fishing anyway), then priesthood and building the oracle? Having Mathematics would also reduce the effective cost of the oracle. The downside being that it would delay monarchy and monotheism.
I would think it's better to get Priesthood first so we can start slowbuilding it. If we're worried about hammer efficiency we can have the chops come in the turn after we finish mathematics, although that would delay the wonder by 1 turn. The limiting factor is going to be how fast we can get Mathematics. (EDIT: And Priesthood before Writing helps ever so slightly in that respect as well.)
kjn is doing an amazing job with C&D, but I have my doubts about accurately predicting Priesthood tech and Oracle progress for civs we have not even met yet. If we had visuals on all the cities, we could maybe do it through the espionage screen, but that is not going to happen.
mh
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