PBEM 5H Vampires vs Ogres, Vampire spoiler thread

[Irgy]

An interesting dilemna. Bob said this with the save email:

Yeah, congrats! And you might be able to break the "choke" this turn, too. I've been pretty sloppy with my play lately, I suppose I should stop feeding my troops to bears now and actually pay attention to what I'm doing again :P

The situation?


Yeah, I don't think so bob. Sure, I have 4 workers, so I could road to him and hit the injured wolf. But really, 2 bloodpets, only one of which can actually use the axe, and it's not really all that injured at 3.5. On top of that, I'm fairly sure I still get the 40% crossing river penalty even though he doesn't get defensive bonuses. I really don't like my chances. If I had two more bloodpets in position, which in hindsight I should have, I'd consider it a bit more seriously. The biggest problem is that if it doesn't work, I'm left with at least two workers exposed on the tile next to the wolf. Oh and I'd lose the axe. Not a great idea at all.

Not sure whether he was trying to draw the mistake, or just thinking from his own perspective ("Oh no, I've possibly screwed up by left my wolf exposed") without thinking it through to the risks I'd have to take to take advantage of it I'm not sure. I suspect the latter, he doesn't seem the devious sort and hasn't tried to mind-game me in the past.

After grabbing the axe and taking it home, I went and re-arranged my tiles to pick up bronzeworking this turn rather than next:


Had a look through the demographics and whatnot. I actually have a higher power rating than Bob at the moment.


Bob still only has two cities. Not even a higher total population. What on earth has he been doing all this time, really?


And the rest of the demographics:


Well behind in food+hammers 46-28, but that's to be expected. Ahead significantly in GNP though, 40-26! Note that this is after I rearranged my tiles to maximise research and squeeze out Bronzeworking, so the reality is probably a little more even. Also note that my production is massively under-reported. I have an extra 9 hammers per turn coming from the Governer's Mansions, so in reality it's more than double what it says there.

Once I improve my tiles again, particularly hooking up the wine so the one unhappy citizen in each city can get working again, I'll be caught back up.

Things are looking pretty good on the whole. I'll get Moroi real soon, at which point I can chase away or hopefully kill the stupid wolf. I'll start working improved tiles again and settle copper shortly after.

[DaveV]

But really, 2 bloodpets, only one of which can actually use the axe

Actually, if the unit holding the axe dies, the axe drops to the ground and another unit can pick it up and attack. If he dies, the axe drops the ground and another unit can pick it up and attack...

[Irgy]

Actually, if the unit holding the axe dies, the axe drops to the ground and another unit can pick it up and attack. If he dies, the axe drops the ground and another unit can pick it up and attack...

Really? Maybe my odds were better than I thought. You can't pass an item more than once in a turn, so I'd assumed you couldn't pick it up more than once either. I'll have to test it out.

The odds were still poor though mind you, so it doesn't really matter. The only thing I'll say is that I should have put all but 2 bloodpets on that tile last turn, so that if something like this came up I'd have more options.

[Irgy]

Made it to bronzeworking!


It will take 6 and 7 turns to build a training yard in my two cities. So a while to go before the choke is over still. Saving cash now as well of course.

[Irgy]

Another blitz, and plenty to report. The executive summary: 8 turns to Feudalism, the choke is broken, the Clan is noticably ahead in score, but behind a little (actually not that much) in tech, therefore ahead significantly in land and population. The Clan founded RoK, but haven't switched to it yet.

Here's a shot from just before the blitz. The interesting point here is that I've discovered it's possible to have negative beakers towards a tech, and those negative beakers actually contribute to negative progress in a tech, even below zero! So right now, we have negative knowledge about hunting. I guess that means we have incorrect superstitions about it which need to be overcome before true progress can be made? In any case, it opens up another use for binary tech - switch to a dump tech while working 0% science, then back to the real tech you're after at 100%.


Here I am breaking the choke. Bob didn't know I'd even upgraded the warriors to Moroi, and only knew something was coming when he heard the burning blood noise. I play with the sound off for RL reasons so I forget about stuff like that sometimes. He'll enjoy listening to vampire magic when the time comes Only lost one inexperienced Moroi, so a good trade on the whole, especially with the experience the successful one gained. I successfully recovered it too from using burning blood.


Settled the copper, and bronze weapons for all:


Got very lucky with one of the gargoyles:


The barbarian city where I had a complete disaster. I went there with a highly experienced Moroi - level 6 I think (combat 3, shock, mobility). Which would have made him experienced enough to transfer Vampirism. A real asset. Anyway, I won his first battle easily, but then decided (after at least waiting a turn for backup) to attack again at 75% odds rather than wait and heal. Complete stupidity and foolish impatience. If I'd won, I'd have thought I was clever no doubt, but in the end I lost that Moroi and about 4 bloodpets and served mostly only to give the barbarian units experience before giving up on the entire assault. What an absolute disaster. Didn't use burning blood because of the 2/3 chance of losing the unit, but if I had at least I'd have probably defeated the barbarians. As it is I'm going to wait until Vampires before I take the city. No doubt Bob has Rantine wandering around by now taking whatever barb city he pleases.


Bob has founded the Runes of Kilmorph, has switch to Aristograrianism himself, has popped a great scientist, but still has been consistently lagging in GNP.


Demographics just after the end of the blitz:


Note that I'm actually well ahead in production, thanks to the Governers' Mansions (which aren't reported in those figures). Which makes us about even on the whole for food+production, I'm a little behind but not much in it. Note also that I haven't used my worldspell yet. There's never been a great time for it. I'd have simply put myself above my happy cap everywhere. I currently plan to use it to give all my cities a sudden boost just as the Vampires come in, giving me extra (unhappy) population to feed on.

Tech situation is visible, now that I have Trade:


So, he's got Mysticism and Masonry, but notably not anything further from those (construction, philosophy, KotE still on his to-get list). I have Writing, Horseback Riding, Trade and Cartography.

Tech path has been a pure Vampire beeline since Bronzeworking was finished and the choke broken. Went via horseback riding rather than sailing, since there's barely any water on the map (I don't have fishing even). They're due on turn 124. Not sure how good this is, but I doubt it's spectacular given the early choke. In no danger of having to worry about Ogres though

I have 5 cities total now. The two newest are just completing their Governers' Mansions. A first build for me because of the production boost and double-speed from Organised, never mind the slight maintenance decrease. The biggest limitation is happiness. Bob said he's seen 4 happiness resources in total, I still haven't spotted one. There's wines, that I have already, Dyes near the centre of the map, Furs in the north (which require the expensive Hunting) and one hidden one I haven't seen.

Right now, I'm trying to found a city for Marble, in order to build The Great Library (because I can really). However, in the circled location is another gargoyle. I want to fight it at decent odds rather than lose too many Moroi. However, it then moved, as the arrow shows, directly onto my planned city site. What a pain. It's also made me draw some sort of strange rotated male symbol. There's another gargoyle out there somewhere still too, not to mention the three on the other side of the map.


On the whole, it's looking good. I said I'd be in good shape if I got to Vampires, and there's no way I won't get there now. Bob could attack, but I have a higher power rating than him right now so it's not likely to succeed.

My tech path after Vampires is something like:
* Sanitation. Aside from the extra food from farms, I also get Public Baths for happiness, which is a huge limitation for me at the moment.
* Way of the Wicked, for the whip. This includes getting Mysticism and Philosophy along the way. I'll consider building the Bone Palace since I have marble, unless I spot that Bob's taken Philosophy for some reason himself.
* Knowledge of the Ether->Corruption of Spirit->Priesthood. This gives the Vampires some support in the form of Ritualists, to deal with big stacks.
* Deception->Infernal Pact->Fanaticism->Malevolent Designs (via the Infernal Grimoire). This unlocks a stack of top tier units, including our hero. Deception is there to use the Undercouncil with Hyborem. Not to mention the benefits of the Esus shrine if I can find a great merchant or priest somewhere.
* Necromancy. Probably before some of the above. This lets me improve death nodes to help the spectres, and if I get time I can build the Tower of Necromancy to double-boost them.
* At some point I should get Hunting, despite being about -16 in it at the moment, for hawks.

I've probably left a few things out, this is just going from memory. Hopefully once I have Vampires and maybe Ritualists I'll have him done for

[Irgy]

3 turns to Fuedalism and counting...

[Irgy]

It arrived!


So, what did we build, once this tech was available? Let's have a look at each city:

And, the first Vampires are born :


Used the worldspell, to grab some population to feed on. I don't really have much other use for it at the moment. As bob said, most of his cities are on "avoid growth" at the moment anyway, so didn't hurt him much. I should have just used it turn 1 or something. Oh well. It put me ahead in score, for 1 turn. After that I fed, and he grew back.


Once sanitation was in, I started building Public Baths everywhere. As you can see, I have a lot of unhappiness. This is the lack of happiness resources, as well as the feeding unhappiness. In hindsight I think I should have actually researched Sanitation first.


Note also the +10 gold and -6 research at that point. Things are a lot better now that the Public Baths are in. Bob was complaining that he's break-even at 10% research, so I'm not doing too bad really.

No screenshot, but I lost my first vampire battle. I stumbled on a Clan city, and captured a worker. It should have been two workers, but fear from the spectre (which I needed to use to get there) made the other worker flee. Bah. Because it was a blitz, delete unit didn't work, and Bob (despite my suggesting it would be fairer if he didn't) captured it back anyway. He then finished a road with the other worker, and killed my vampire with a wolf rider that I never got a look at. The spectre didn't defend before the vampire like I'd hoped it would - instead it just allowed the wolf rider to avoid moving onto the tile after the battle and then retreat out of sight. Bah.

[Irgy]

We've played another blitz, and a fair few PBEM turns, up to T162 now.

On the whole, the game has sort of stalled, with neither side quite brave enough to attack the other. It seems a shame to be sitting around with vampires now active, but my GNP is a lot higher so it's fine by me really.

The tech situation:


They have hunting and both of the Kilmorph techs on us, hunting I'd like to have but otherwise no concern really. Over them, we have:
Philosophy, Way of the Wicked, Writing, Trade, Warfare, Cartography and of course Feudalism.

Demographics:


As I said, way ahead in GNP. He has more cities and more population, and more food to go with it, but I'm actually ahead in production after adding the ~64 unreported Governer's Mansion hammers.

Here's a city by city overview of the empire. First, the big picture, in the form of a big picture:


Prespur, the capital. It has the brewery for the commerce, which is giving the full +30% now, and an academy, so it's really pumping out the commerce. Vampires are trying to keep the population at bay without sending the unhappiness up too high, but it's outpacing them now.

Nubia is now a military pump, and where I will build the Heroic Epic. Still building Moroi as they're valuable as shock troops in case he comes in with a large stack.

Acacia, the original copper city, is now something of a wonder pump bceause it has better production than most cities. Once it grows I'll work some more scientists too.

Morr'ta'nar is building Form of the Titan at the moment, but will start on the National Epic and become a GP farm soon after, as it has a lot of food.

Adonias is the only city with the catapult/chariot building, and so it's busily pumping out catapults. Catapults are a stop-gap solution to the threat of a large stack coming out of Clan lands. I'd rather AV priests and their fire spell, but it's a long way away.

San'ta'ron, Pavu'nar, Dirage and the border city Krinera are just getting off the ground now, having built their mansions, monuments and markets. They're now building food storage buildings in preparation for whipping and feeding.

And finally Spilan is a new acquisition from the barbarians:

[NobleHelium]

What kind of techs are you getting now?

[Irgy]

Well, not fishing like the screenshots say, it's my dump tech - currently up to about -90 beakers in it

I'm actually going to grab Mathematics now. I'm break even at about 40% science, which means when I stop using binary the gambling house will provide 6 (!) happiness. Happiness is the real limiting factor on this map with the shortage of happy resources, so getting those gambling houses set up will be a massive boost to the economy.

After that I'm going to basically beeline Ritualists, followed by an Infernal Grimoire fuelled slingshot to Malevolent Designs. I'll pick up Necromancy along the way, as the tower would really improve my spectres (as would just plain old death mana from the mana nodes too).

EDIT - and having just checked in-game, Mathematics is finished, and I can add Military Strategy as something else I plan on finishing off first. Currency is also a tempting economy tech, and Hunting is something I probably ought not wait too long for. Those two will probably be in between Ritualists and Malevolent Designs.