RBP4 [SPOILERS] - Shaka of Zulu (sunrise089, regoarrarr, and friends)

[regoarrarr]

Brief chat with plako

regoarrarr: so i heard you got judaism?
plako: yes
regoarrarr: congrats
plako: thx
regoarrarr: i guess that was your "lucky religion spread"?
plako: yeah. right on the border city
regoarrarr: cool
was that unexpected?
plako: Couldn't have been better spot
regoarrarr: usually goes to the biggest non capital city, right?
plako: quite
regoarrarr: so did you get it again on the reload?
plako: we had 3 similarily sized cities
regoarrarr: ahc ool
plako: Reload was at the beginning of turn so it wasn't rerolled
regoarrarr: ah
makes sense
so was one of your 2 new cities in our direction?
plako: No.
regoarrarr: i know we're still far away geographically
relatively speaking
plako: Indeed
regoarrarr: would you be interested in both of us letting the other know if/when we settle city / cities towards the other?
plako: I'm ok with that
I'll settle next city towards you, but it is still far away
regoarrarr: so the area in question woudl be NE of the city where our luddite finding warrior saw your borders
and for us, on that narrow jungle neck of land south of us
plako: yes
regoarrarr: which i've named "bob's fork"
the 3 way junction between you, us and WK
it's easier to give it a name ;-)
plako: ok. Well I'll let you know If I settle SW part of that junction then
regoarrarr: so do you view that little area just SW of bob's fork as "yours"?
plako: Not nescessarily, but I think it is similar distance from both of our capitals
So that should be starting point
regoarrarr: yeah
i agree
so without saying the forbidden "B.A" word
at least it seems like we're on the same page

tl;dr - he did found Judaism. Neither of his 2 recent cities (7 and 8 ) went in our direction, but his next (9th!) city is going that way. We did agree to notify the other if/when we settle in the other's direction. We also agreed that the mini area SW of Bob's Fork is a starting spot for our border negotiations.

[regoarrarr]

Adlain chose to reply via chat

Adlain: Hi Regoarrarr
regoarrarr: hi
Adlain: Just thought i would reply to your message - but it is always easyer in chat i find
regoarrarr: cool
Adlain: tbh not allots been happening, short of getting some open borders (i see your in lockes lands also) getting ready for some expanding myself as im lagging behind city wise with only 4 and trying to get a scout to meet up with luddite
regoarrarr: hey that sounds exactly what we're doing
trying to expand and trying to meet luddite
Adlain: no stealing my top secret plans - you better not be reading my thread

regoarrarr: lol
right
Adlain: although - as you may have noticed - my thread doesnt get updated as often as it should
not quite to cull standards but im giving him a run for his money
regoarrarr: ah i see the turn has rolled
Adlain: As for Judaism (Heathen bunch that they obviosly are) i honestly dont know. i also got distant lands notification
regoarrarr: it looks like it was plako
Adlain: maybe he got it in respnce to my getting it recently in PBEM 11
regoarrarr: sounds like the holy city was in the perfect place for him too
as if he needed any more breaks in this game
Adlain: lol
ahwell - we play the hand we are delt
regoarrarr: and sometimes we move our capital to the coast anyways
Adlain: and any cards found up your sleaves are there by pure coincidence
where is the holy city then
regoarrarr: right on his border with WK
Adlain: ouch
just what WK diddnt need
regoarrarr: right
Adlain: Do you have any plans for Religion??
regoarrarr: i'd like to get one
Adlain: i could arrange a Missionary if your reseptive
regoarrarr: yeah that might be useful
i'd love to land my own
but unless i'm first to code of laws, which i doubt
it doesn't seem likely
i'm sure someone will bulb philo before us
and someone will get theo too i'd think
Adlain: ok then - i will try to send one your way within the next 10-15 turns
obviosly allow for traveling time
right - i need to dissapear again
regoarrarr: ok
bye

He's going to send us a Buddhist missionary within 10-15 turns + traveling time. I'm still not sure we need / want one but hey I'm not going to turn down a free one.

I would like to get our own religion but I think that's unlikely to happen

[regoarrarr]

Okay turn rolled so I decided to hop in real quick as I won't have my laptop available to play tonight

I offered OB to Nakor as we have a warrior near his city of Horseland. Actually it's quite a multi-national affair over here!



That's units from 5 civs there - nakor, LP, Locke, us and Adlain

It's interesting that so many civs are bordering up. Nakor / Locke here. Moogle / mackoti in the north and WK / plako. And the whole mackoti / luddite war seems to have been over a border dispute. Meanwhile we are still pretty far from having borders established. Which I guess is "a good thing" ™

I whipped the worker at Montgomery



Overflow will go into a monument to pop borders, though I'm tempted to just put the overflow into another worker. Also moved the settler in place to settle Hamilton next turn. Math now showing as due in 7 turns, though that's still an approximation what with the city settling and such. My guess is that it will take 6 turns of science, but we'll need an extra turn of max gold to finance it.

Shoot - I meant to take a picture of "Bob's Fork" but I forgot to before I logged out. 'twill have to be another time then.

[regoarrarr]

Response back from WK

OK, all this talk about geography is getting us nowhere. As a picture says 1000 words, hopefully the one I'm attaching will help us save 900 of them. Bob's fork is the copper up north, and you can just see my borders to the south. The path to the E and S lead to dead ends, don't go down them. I'll give you more directions when you reach my lands.

I've scouted out the bottom of the map, and I'd be interested to know how tall the map is. I forgot to check how far it is this turn, so I'll try and remember to do it next turn.

WK

He also attached the following picture. I know T-hawk is just going to tell us to WB it, and maybe I will, but I'm wondering if we defog one or both of these coasts, if we can get trade routes with WK



I'll try to do more of a composite shot of Bob's Fork later on today

[regoarrarr]

In somewhat worse news, SleepingMoogle replied.

Dreams can be interpreted in many different ways, depending on the observer and his viewpoint. While I cannot claim to be a seer in that regard (the partiarch of our third tribe would be more suited for that, had he not been sleeping for the last couple of turns), but I'll take a shot.

The first dream is tricky, but your description could indicate that you are uncomfortable with sudden changes to your plans. The the black cloud might be a manifestation of fear of the unknown in that case. Alternatively, you it might be that fear death, which is a journey no one can tell the destination of with absolute certainty. Here the cloud could represent death itself, as a foe that cannot be overcome. So you see, the number of ways this could be interpreted is basically limitless.

The second dream is easy though. It is your subconscious telling you that basketball is not a big thing (and anyone not living in the States would be happy to tell you). :-P

About your border suggestion, this is where I become a bit more cautious. I have noticed the clam site myself, and I am hestitant to simply concede it. I am heading the point where most if not all expansion has to be headed south or be taken from other Civs. Giving up the location (aside from it having good resources and a strategic location) would endanger that expansion because it greatly reduces the amount of land that would match a 'natural' border.

I'm not saying no by default, but I would hope that the location is to be part of a greater border agreement that strengthens the ties between our Civs, rather than the cause of arguments or worse.

Not happy that he is trying to horn in on that clams site. I need to think about how best to respond there

[Krill]

If you have a straight line of coastal tiles from your southern city to one of WKs' cities, you'll have a trade connection with him.

Also, that looks like an interesting piece of land to dotmap...

[regoarrarr]

If you have a straight line of coastal tiles from your southern city to one of WKs' cities, you'll have a trade connection with him.

Also, that looks like an interesting piece of land to dotmap...

Right - but he's got a city on his "left" coast - I have cities on the "right" coast. So I wasn't sure if that would cause traderoutes.

As for dotmapping - I don't think any of that pictured land will be "ours" - it probably is going to end up being WKs, but we'll see.

[regoarrarr]

Here's my reply to SleepingMoogle.

Thanks for the dream interpretations. It's always good to know that I have a fear of death or change, and that basketball is stupid :-). Though darrelljs (who lives in Florida) has a different interpretation of dream #2! I actually had a dream last night where I had a warrior next to 3 of Nakor's workers who were chopping a forested hill, and I did not attack them. No need to interpret that one though - I'm sure that means that I am an awesome neighbor!!!!

Out of character - I really appreciated that you took the time to at least give something as an interpretation - I had been wanting to ask you to interpret some dreams for awhile, just to see what you might way. It just took me awhile to remember some of my dreams! I view the fact that you were willing to give some good interpretations as good evidence that you and us will get along just great (and curses to gmail not interpreting forum smiley commands!)

So, on to the "other" part of the email. I was actually kind of surprised that you expressed concern about that site. Though maybe it's just part of "negotiating". I've never really been one to "negotiate" and dance around things - I view myself as more of just a straight talker - let's figure out what we both want and then figure out a way that we can both get as much of it as we can. I don't really like to ask for things that I don't really want, so that later in discussions I can pretend to give them up to win something else.

And again, I'm not saying that you're doing that, and I do agree that it makes sense to talk about that site in conjunction with more of a larger discussion. I just find it strange that we're talking about a site that is 4-6 tiles from my 2nd city (depending on which thile the actual city is on), and 4-6 tiles from your 5th or 6th city!

And what happened to all those "secrets" in your north that you didn't want us exploring? I figured that was where you were hiding your double gems triple river corn site? Or was the secret that you don't have any land up there? :-)

Anyways, as for the discussion, where do you think a natural border for us should lie? Do you have enough of a picture of the area scouted out that you feel that you're in a position to talk about it? I'm not sure we need to engage folks like mackoti and/or Adlain, but we at least probably need to be aware that, depending on what we're talking about, we may need to consider what kinds of claims they might have.

So what do you think? Might be easier if you're around for a chat at some point over the next few days / turns? Will you agree to not settle any further cities while we are in negotiations? We are willing to not settle east of Reading while we're talking if you agree to also not settle south of your wines city.

For reference, here's a pic from a few turns ago of the "disputed" area

[regoarrarr]

Reply back from Moogle

Negotiating may perhaps be a little too strong a word here. I prefer to talk straight too, so I'm confident we can both end up satified and continue to work together. After all, there is a reason I gave you open borders that early. ;-)

I'll have a look at the land in between us and get back to you. If you prefer to do it via chat that's cool too (although I am mostly limited to Europe evenings). In the meantime, I'll pledge not to settle any cities closer to you (the city that's planned east of the wine city is one tile further south though.. hope that's not a problem).

-SleepingMoogle

[Dicorion]

Reply back from Moogle: "the city that's planned east of the wine city is one tile further south though"

And that is insulting! Crash them now with..., with..... ah nevermind

I can see a problem to divide the land to satisfy both parties. A nice clams+gems+cow site is out of question than?
That will be a shame.
This could be a very nice commerce city which nicely fits to your dot map....