[SPOILERS - PBEM17] darrelljs - Elizabeth of Egypt

[darrelljs]

Damn it I mis-clicked and lost my post . Basically, your MM is very tight Krill. I did a few things differently:

1. Used the initial Warrior as a roving garrison which allowed me to work a few more cottages instead of forests. Not sure we can do this until Thebes's next border pop.

2. Moved the road over the plains/Stone/Corn. Because we avoid the Oasis, we can save one turn on the plains/river/cottage and overall it only costs us one turn. Settler has to go from Memphis.

3. Pre-chopped forests at Elephantine instead of building roads. Those two forests are the Henge once we get Stone online.

4. A few minor tweaks in the SE as well, damn if I can remember them.

I ran it out until t42 so I can compare with the Henge approach:



Here I have 10 pop vs. 12 in the Stonehenge scenario. I have 27 surplus food vs 26 in the Stonehenge scenario despite that population difference, and as you can see my commerce income is greater (44 vs. 40). Expenses have become a major issue, at 13 vs. just 4, however I can still tech quite well so its not a huge concern. Most importanlty, the hammer tally difference. I'm down Stonehenge and a Granary (80H) but I'm up two Settlers, a Warrior and a Galley (173H) despite chopping 3 fewer forests. With Mathematics due next turn, that is a cool 60H, for a net advantage of 153H .

Darrell

[darrelljs]

I think followup tech path has to be:

Mysticism -> Masonry -> Polytheism -> Monotheism -> Preisthood -> Monarchy

Folllowed by:

Aesthetics -> Literature

Then:

Currency -> Code of Laws (swap order if Confucianism available) -> Civil Service

I could definiltey lose out on The Great Library, so we need a backup plan for that Great Engineer.

Darrell

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Is the road to city 5 necessary? With Sailing, once the corn/clams city is roaded, don't the other three automatically get trade routes? If so, it isn't like roads are needed to stave off land invasion any time soon right?

[darrelljs]

Is the road to city 5 necessary? With Sailing, once the corn/clams city is roaded, don't the other three automatically get trade routes? If so, it isn't like roads are needed to stave off land invasion any time soon right?

This is correct. In fact I think a better use is pre-chopping the forests around Thebes. I would ideally like to hit size 6 (unhappy, I know), whip the Aqueduct the turn after Masonry comes in, then chop the HG the following turn. Getting the GE is definitely the bottleneck (17 turns). Running a Priest speeds things up (for example four turns means we get the GE in just 10 turns from HG completion, but the odds of a GE are only 68% at that rate). Optimal might be 2 turns of a Priest => 14 turns for the GE at 82% odds.

Darrell

[Krill]

I take it the worker MM is exactly the same until turn 23? If that's tha case, I wouldn't worry about the micro after that point, we have a lot of scouting to do until that point that will influence the decisions.

[Krill]

Backup plan: get MC before currency, slave a forge and run the eng.

Also, Myst before Maths, and probably before writing makes a lot of sense. Sailing doesn't have to come that early either IMO. Fishing is the last 100% certain tech, I think.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

I think my MM was exactly the same up until T24 too Krill. That part just seems fairly clear.

I also agree that after Fishing the tech options are wide open. I didn't even pay much attention to that aspect of it when I was running the sandbox through T42. I figure that can be adjusted any number of ways once BW comes in. But isn't Sailing useful to get that galley up to explore and for coastal TRs? Lighthouses are also decent things to put hammers into after granaries finish for regrowing.

Why get Mysticism so early? Even under the way I ran it which got the corn/clam city up to speed faster than you or Darrell, I didn't get the obelisk whipped until ~T41, and it could've been delayed further I suppose, because the desert stone quarry is a crap tile--so really it is just needed for the stone alone at that stage.

If somehow you land Henge in the corn/clam city, you could run a priest from the obelisk and get a GProphet too.

How many cities is the goal before HGs finish? I think seven is very doable.

[darrelljs]

Oooh...jungly island.



You can see coast north of the jungle, and another grassland land tile north of that. No one had a score increase this turn, for some reason I expected more techs discovered. The Worker completed when I ended my turn. In keeping with tradition, an unanalyzed demographics shot:



Darrell

[darrelljs]

Why get Mysticism so early?

Obelisk gates Stone, Stone gates The Hanging Gardens, The Hanging Gardes gates The Great Library. Unfortunately, Mathematics gates The Hanging Gardens as well, as does Masonry (Aqueduct). So basically the only tech we could skip is Sailing, but for the trade routes and the ability to build a scouting Galley, I don't think that's a good idea. I still like:

Mining -> BW -> Fishing -> Sailing -> Mathematics -> Mysticism -> Masonry

After that the question becomes how far should I go down the Monarchy path before picking up Aesthetics and Literature?

How many cities is the goal before HGs finish? I think seven is very doable.

Seven is a good target; I also believe we can do it. We want seven Workers as well, five to chop The Hanging Gardens at Thebes and two to finish Stonehenge at the Clams/Corn city. The Hanging Gardens will finish two turns sooner, since the two Workers on the Stone will have to move from the Stone to the forests, then chop the forests the following turn.

Darrell

[Krill]

I want 9 cities, not all of them on the same continent. Even if we have to stack slave unhappiness.