[SPOILERS] Map thread

[luddite]

I don't like Russia or Persia, as their UUs/UBs are both basically irrelevant. (AND they start with hunting. A civ with no UU/UB starting with Agriculture/Wheel would be better!) But Japan and Spain are good. Maybe add two of Ethiopia, Aztec, Mongolia, or France?

As for leaders, those are fine (except I think the charismatic ones lose out), but I think it would be cooler to have 8 different traits. Perhaps:

Cre/Agg (Kublai)
Phi/Cha (Lincoln)
Ind/Imp (Augustus)
Spi/Org (Asoka)

?

I think Persia is OK. The immortal isn't nearly as good as the war chariot of course, but it's still a slight bonus, since it can defend cities against axes or chariots. France seems flat out better than most of the civs, since they're ag/wheel and also have a potentially strong UU.

What about doing Aztecs/Ethiopia/Khmer/Persia, so that all 4 players start with hunting?

I like that leader list btw, seems interesting and balanced.

[plako]

Immortals are ok also against humans. They get defensive bonus and 50% against all archery units including L-bows and X-bows. Gotta find that somehow useful. Latest leader list is also ok.

[zakalwe]

Here's an idea I've been toying with previously... you could apply it to a lakes script or to a continents script (or to any base map, really, but that's when it makes the most sense). Generate the map as usual, then replace all coastal tiles with plains and all ocean tiles with desert. Replace ocean seafood with oases, and coastal seafood with plains wheat or similar.*

The end result would be "oceans" of desert, eliminating choke points while preserving separate habitable areas. Of course you would eliminate naval warfare too, so maybe you'd be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.


[SIZE="1"]* Maybe there's already a map script that does this; it certainly wouldn't be hard to code.[/SIZE]

[Krill]

Asoka is the only slow leader with no early game boost. Suggest that gets changed for something else.

[novice]

Asoka is the only slow leader with no early game boost. Suggest that gets changed for something else.

Exp/Pro then?

[zakalwe]

Or re-shuffle those 8 traits.

Industrious counts as an early game advantage in my book, so maybe pair that with Organized (Roosevelt), and pair Imperialistic with Spiritual (except there's no Imp/Spi leader).

So maybe:

Cre/Agg (Kublai)
Ind/Org (Roosevelt)
Imp/Phi (Suleiman)
Cha/Spi (Brennus)

Or maybe Cre/Org (Zara Yaqob) and Ind/Agg (Stalin) would be better.

[kalin]

Industrious counts as an early game advantage in my book, so maybe pair that with Organized (Roosevelt), and pair Imperialistic with Spiritual (except there's no Imp/Spi leader).

There is... the Byzantine leader.
Kalin

[zakalwe]

There is... the Byzantine leader.
Kalin

Ah right, so Imp/Spi is also an option then.

In short, I like the general idea of putting all of those 8 traits into play. How exactly to balance them is probably best decided by more experienced players than me. And part of that balancing is obviously to pair the leaders with actual civilizations, too.

[Gaspar]

Or re-shuffle those 8 traits.

Industrious counts as an early game advantage in my book, so maybe pair that with Organized (Roosevelt), and pair Imperialistic with Spiritual (except there's no Imp/Spi leader).

So maybe:

Cre/Agg (Kublai)
Ind/Org (Roosevelt)
Imp/Phi (Suleiman)
Cha/Spi (Brennus)

Or maybe Cre/Org (Zara Yaqob) and Ind/Agg (Stalin) would be better.

I like Zara, Stalin, Suleiman and Brennus as leader choices. I also like Azteca, Ethiopia, and Persia as Civs. Khmer's out because of their UU, though. If we want everyone to having Hunting as a starting tech, maybe we stick to the later game UU civs? Early rush is going to be totally off the table with 4 civs on a larger map unless you intend to plant their capitals nearby with lots of land to backfill explore into? That's kind of a neat idea actually.

I think if you stick with the original setup, I might just sub Celtia in for Khmer and be done with it. Gallic Warriors and Duns are crap, but at least it keeps the basic eras consistent. Or could use the Vikings, slightly different era for both, but has constraint of being the only Fishing start.

Zara of Azteca, Stalin of Ethiopia, Suleiman of Viking and Brennus of Persia, perhaps?

[Krill]

Whoever gets Roosevelt is screwed. Much worse leader for this game than the others...