[SPOILERS - PBEM17] regoarrarr - Bismarck of Inca

[regoarrarr]

For the record, for our 5 cities we have 6 workers, with 2 more of each in production.

After discussing it with Cyneheard, we're going to found Mackoti 1NE on the plains hill (the northern red dot on the island), and Profane in place on the east coast of the mainland - both next turn.

[regoarrarr]

We also revolted to OR this turn and will revolt to Judaism next turn

[regoarrarr]

Chat with spaceman

novice: hello there
Me: thought i'd come back to our open borders / building good relations discussions
novice: sounds positive
Me: you'll notice when you get the save back that your workboat is coming up on the borders of one of our coastal cities
which means 2 things
1) if you want to continue on your circumnav chasing journey you'll need ob with us
(or war)
and 2) once you defog those last tiles you'll be eligible for TRs with us
novice: i see
Me: after talking things over with cyneheard, we'd be interested in some sort of gpt deal
that you mentioned the other day
novice: yeah there were a number of different ways we could compensate
Me: perhaps at one rate now that it would be one sided, and a lesser rate down the road when we could benefit also
(though we'd never get as much of a benefit as you do with the extra TRs)
novice: well no
so what were you thinking?
Me: not sure
kind of tricky to figure out a good amount
especially since neither of us have currency
we had also mentioned possibly some sort of jewish conversions as a payment - were you interested in that at all?
novice: back in 5
Me: ok
Sent at 11:58 on Saturday
novice: back - smelly nappy - pretty certain you know what that's about
Me: :-D
novice: we already have an agreement on religion
Me: ah ok?
hindu?
novice: i think so
i've lost track slightly
Me: hindus are darrell / krill
novice: in any case, we are making currency a priority
Me: makes sense
novice: yes that's it
they are close
Me: ok
so what would you think?
we have 5 cities right now i think
and each one should be a 3 coin tr at least with you?
novice: yeah 3 i would have thought vs 1 or 2 already
(we have an island city)
i'll load up the save so i can get more accurate info
Me: ah good point
novice: i haven't played the save in a while so if i come across as guarded or clueless, it's because i don't really know
:-)
Me: mmhmm
that's what they all say ;-)
novice: well yes
i've been playing PBEM13 more often
anyway, PBEM17 has been coming during the working day when i can't play it
Me: ah
13 still going well?
novice: yeah pretty well
if a little slowly
not quite the PBEM17 pace
Me: yeah
my 2 games are going about the same pace
novice: right, we have plenty of 2 commerce trade routes
Me: but 8 only has 3 players left
novice: heh
Me: and i don't really count
novice: so it's going to be 5 gpt
if you have 5 cities
obviously increasing as you expand
6 soon?
Me: yes
novice: so maybe split the difference then
i caveat any negotiation with needing to run it past with novice first, by the way
Me: so # of our cities / 2?
sure
novice: well that seems fairest - so 3 gpt from when we get trade routes from you, up to 4 when you get 8, etc
Me: payable ina lump sum when you tech currency?
novice: yes, although it may be that by the time i workboat gets home we have it
*our workboat
Me: well your workboat wouldn't need to get home to get TRs
i think you should have them in 2t
novice: oh right
Me: just need to defog the route to us along the coast
novice: well yeah ok if that happens before currency we pay a lump sum up front when we get it
Me: okay
novice: so where did our workboat go this last turn? novice didn't post and i don't want to gain new info - if in doubt i won't move it.
we started the turn SW of crabs
Me: lemme see
i don't have the game up
but i think i have a s/s
novice: oh it doesn't matter...
what?
haha, "last known whereabouts" tab?
Me: screenshot not spreadsheet
you went NE-SE
you're 1SE of the crabs now
well i guess you could have just gone 2E
novice: yeah i would be fairly certain NE first
since we only get more information that way
so you're settling near the ivory soon then?
Me: not immediately
we have a city further east on that peninsula
novice: aha
ok well i'll post this chat in our thread and get novice's thoughts - and then get back to you
Me: ok

The proposal is that we get # of our cities / 2 in gpt, to be payable in a lump sum once they research currency if they don't have it already. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Also they said they have a deal with darrell about religion which is probably how they got OB with them.

[regoarrarr]

I accepted OB with novice / spaceman. So for record-keeping purposes, it's T53 right now and we have 7 cities. So that should be 3.5gpt for the next few turns.

I don't know if we can settle any more cities - our economy is ... uh.... not doing so well.

We've got about 8-9t to Mathematics at current research pace (about 20bpt breakeven)

I've forgotten about what it's like to actually have consequences to crazy expansion

In other news, Pyramids BIADL (by novice!)

[regoarrarr]

I guess it doesn't increase tech pace to Math when I keep spending turns in anarchy

We revolted to Judaism this turn - so we need to get probably at least one Jewish missionary out of zakalwe for plako

[Cyneheard]

In other news, Pyramids BIADL (by novice!)

Wow, can't say I was actually expecting that one.

Hanging Gardens it is.

[regoarrarr]

Turn back around again.



Our exploring workboat has found the Straight Talker borders. They were to our SW but due to the "magic" of world wrap they are also to our NE!

So we should get some 3 coin trade routes with them in a few turns hopefully

[regoarrarr]

So after talking some with novice or spaceman, it looks like every main continent has (at least) 2 "arms"

Our "right arm" ends with our city of pindicator.

The Straight Talkers "left arm" is visible in the right of the above picture (sorry for no resource pointers)

Then there's the corn island in between us. Possibly another island south of the corn island. Those will be the ones for us to fight over in terms of settling.

[regoarrarr]

Blah blah blah wall of novice chat

Me: hi
novice: hi there!
novice here
Me: incan workboat off the port arm!
novice: oh? didn't notice
Me: just got there this turn
you will probably see it when you get the save back
at least i think this is your left "arm"
novice: if you've travelled NE from home
Me: yeah
novice: then it should be
so you want directions?
Me: if you know where untis or borders of anyone else are
that would be helpful
novice: thanks for OB, we have trade routes with Pindicator and Profane
but not the rest
Me: ah
novice: you need to hook up your cities
Me: well they are hooked up
but you need a border expansion at pindicator
as there are 2 tiles of coast that aren't in our borders yet
and since you don't have them defogged
novice: oh, that matters?
Me: yeah they have to be in the borders of someone you're not at war with
or defogged by you
novice: I see
so chop that terrace

Me: heh
workin on it ;-)
hmm i guess i could also road to profane
novice: So Profane, there the issue is that it's not hooked up?
Me: yeah
it's on the east coast
but doesn't have a road to the rest of my citeis
as it was just founded recently
novice: You went pretty fast from 4 to 7 cities...
Me: yeah
novice: in two turns I think
so, basically you want contacts?
Me: yup that's how it ended up working out
novice: with your boat?
Me: what else would there be?
i mean if you've got wine or women....
novice: circumnavigation, greener pastures, I don't know...
we've got wine
but haven't settled it
Me: maybe a cash cow? :-)
novice: heh
Me: as for circumnav, sure we wouldn't mind it
and if our boat gets it then cool
but my suspicion is, just like the pyramids, it will be gone before we get around to it
(congrats btw)
novice: thanks
Me: TIMMMMMMMMMMMMBER
novice: hope you didn't waste any hammers
lol
not much left of that now, I'm afraid
okay I think you want to avoid our north coast, just ocean there
if you go on the south side of our arm you can skip over to Darrell's continent
You'll probably need OB with him to get past him though
I think Shoot the Moon has a boat somewhere on Darrell's north coast as well, although it may have moved on
Me: hmm
the problem is that we are already well on the north coast
novice: oh you are?
Me: before we knew it was your island
do you know where your gold tile is
novice: where, related to landmarks?
Me: (or at least one of your gold tiles)
novice: heh
we only know of one
Me: ok
our WB is 2S of htat
novice: mined gold, right?
Me: yes
novice: and roaded
Me: ye
novice: okay well you'll simply have to go around, your on the shadow side
Me: shadow side?
novice: *you're
well, there's nothing to be seen there, just ocean
so you can follow our coast around, clockwise or ccw, it looks to be about the same distance
22 tiles cw until you meet StM
16 tiles ccw until you meet Darrell
Me: wow we must have just missed darrell
have you done much exploring off your arm's west coast?
i.e. between our 2 nations that way?
novice: did you come up along the arm with horse, cows and wine?
Me: yes
novice: well Darrell is about 5 tiles east of that arm's southern tip
Me: man
i think we hit the southern tip
1-1-2 of the horse?
novice: bad luck
Me: yup
how it goes i guess
novice: yes, that's the tip
we've explored our continent there but nothing offshore
is it close to you?
Me: somewhat
there's at least one island there
novice: I think everyone has a 4x4 tile island, Darrell's is just south of the aforementioned tip
yours is east of Profane I think
Me: hmm
this one doesn't look like a 4x4 island
the western edge is definitely only 3 tiles N-S
looks lmore like a gun pointing east
though some of it is fogged
novice: is that between us then?
Me: yes
novice: (geographically, I mean)
Me: heh
yes
novice: well we will be scouting the area soonish
naturally we're looking for potential offshore colonies
Me: right
i'd imagine everyone is
novice: Darrell founded one on our continent, the cheeky bastard
Me: really?
wow that is cheeky
novice: yes
Me: how many cities do they have?
with krill on board it's probably like 10-15
novice: 6
we have 6, StM has 5 (big ones) and you have 7
IIRC
Me: so darrell is to your south
so he's probably to our SE
shoot is to your east
so he's probably to our west
?
novice: yeah maybe StM is more to your NW.
Me: okay
novice: I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this map
Me: no doubt
me too
so where does that leave captain regular bts is tooooo boring?
to our north / south maybe?
novice: I think he's to your SW
everybody is surrounded by everybody else
Me: right
that's cool - that was one of my hopes when i laid out the map instructions
so how did darrell end up founding a city on your continent? did he not know it was "yours"
or did he do it just for the cheek factgor?
novice: He claimed the land based on the fact that it was closer to him than to us
And he had a settler there before we had even scouted it
Me: sounds like classic krill
novice: Grabbed gems, dyes and clams
Me: nice
novice: luckily we had a second gems
but he took our dyes
Me: jungle?
novice: yes
Me: we have a jungle gems / dyes site on our left arm
okay
novice: Everybody does
(except us)
You seem to be rexing quite well, but be aware that your land is quite poachable
the map is designed that way
Me: hmm i wonder if my offshore city is on someone else's arm
novice: anyway, we have OB with Darrell now, ultimately that's more important to us in the short term than that jungle city
heh
where is it?
Me: guess it woudl have to be kyans
to our north
novice: jungle?
Me: no
novice: I don't see how it could be Kyan's
Me: yeah
it doesn't really look "armish"
there's a lot of tundra on that continent
though i have been assuming there is toroidal wrap
novice: have you counted your land tiles?
and multiplied by 5?
Me: my total land tiles?
novice: yeah
Me: like controlled by me right now?
novice: no, let me explain
if you take the number of tiles on your continent + "your" island(s)
and multiply by 5
and compare with the tile count in the score mouseover
there are 200 tiles missing
Me: hmm
novice: so that's no man's land up for grabs
sounds like you've found it, too
Me: hmm
maybe?
novice: well it's probably scattered around
Me: yeah
novice: but there's bound to be some filler no man's land here and there to make the map fit
Me: right
novice: food for thought.
Well, I need to call it a night
Me: ok
nice chatting with you
novice: likewise
ttyl

[regoarrarr]

Okay so the big thing was the map information. Specifically his comment that everyone seems to have a 4x4 island (ours is east of Profane), and if you add up the tiles on our main island, and the ones on our 4x4 island, and multiply by 5, there are still 200 or so land tiles "missing"

116 tiles on our main island
16 on "our" 4x4 island (east of Profane)

That's 132, which multiplied by 5 is 660, compared to 813 total land tiles available. Clearly control of these "no-mans land" tiles will be crucial to the overall success in this game

The interesting thing is that the island where we've settled Mackoti may be one of these places. It doesn't look to be in position to be the "arms" of any of the other players. But there are 23 tiles on Mackoti island (see, when you post 3 whole times you get a whole ISLAND named after you . So if we add that, we've got 155 tiles under our control, which is already 19% of the available land.