Note the clams position that Nospace want to settle are only settleable from one tile and that blocks off everything from the end of hte continent onwards. That is inner ring of Purple (we need to consider getting lib here). Note the island at the end of their tentacle next to Grey. We need to settle grey because we'll lose that city site if they settle at the end.
Note the blocky islands off the coasts of all three teams. Ours is next to USSR that we have culture expanding onto.
OK, here are the suggestions:
Get a border deal with Kyan tonight. I'm 99% sure we can get on sorted in five minutes. Then we delay Navy and Blue (sorry Darrell...)
Next turn USSR builds a galley, works fish/sheep/hill and grows in 1. turn after we slave it and we shove the settler onto the galley and go to settle our island. We can overflow out an easy 15 hammers from the galley for a wb...or we can settle the mini-island between NoSpace and our continents and steal the corn from Grey and not plant Grey (though I dislike that idea, would prefer to settle a bit further over and get grey).
or we just send the blue settle to grey and settle it right now. We send over the worker trio from Japan to chop/hook up that corn, but really the important thing is we get the cultural control of that single grassland tile at the end of their tentacle and get religion into both of these cities asap.
This will seriously compromise NoSpaces' city sites on their tentacle. Which is a good thing™ but we need to get a move on towards settling our west. The east needs 3 settlers to finish, and only 2 of them are critical (Black, Pink). Blue and Navy we can delay, although still want Navy sooner rather than later, and Grey. White we want because it is a strong, triple food city but there is no rush against others for that site.
That is 4 important city sites and we have 1 settler currently built. Purple is a no brainer and gets settled in 2 turns from India. We are getting some workers out atm but not using many slaves to do so, 2 pop in Japan for 1 worker, 2 pop in USA for 2 workers, bringing us up to 9 workers (should, should be enough). So we can get back to settlers right after...
OK, that means Brazil can go onto triple slaves, eot t63 then eot 68, Japan can overflow 20h into a settler then double slave at size 4 (that copper is nice...), finished eot t66, India can overflow into settler (9 hammers, plus 2*8 for 25h) for the quickest possible settler at size 4, finished eot t65. USA could slave out a settler eot t68. So looking at building up to 5 settlers in 10 turns, plus chopped settlers from USSR/China.
So, with those figures down, and considering the importance of screwing NoSpace, I say we settle grey and beeline Feud. And get a galley out of USSR asap with scouting warrior.
Something I'd like to point out now to lurkers is that playing a leader with no early game boni is really hard to do. You need to balance growth, military, tech direction and expansion to key city sites, getting your own traits into working order to help you asap...playing leaders with early game traits is simpler (map dependent though) - get the wonders you need whilst still expanding
Quote:Krill: Just pray that NoSpace just got curency
and that shows a full set of trade routes Darrell: its impossible for us to tell, but easy for Kyan or Shoot
If you catch Kyan today, talk to him re: pressuring nospace on land
and I'll do the same with Shoot Krill: I will do
shit, very easy
just ask Kyan to check the F5 tech screen
and see if NoSpace can trade gold Darrell: right
that's what I meant
if they can trade gold... Krill: I was thinking hte hard core C&D way... Darrell: did you open the save? Krill: yes Darrell: look at their MFG Krill: Are there any other wonders? Darrell: HG Krill: just Tell Kyan to get it this turn Darrell: which we could have had last turn
for 9 free pop Krill: shrug Darrell: anyways, they have a huge GNP and our also tops in MFG
they have lots of mines
they match us in crop yield Krill: they have about 20% more pop than us Darrell: 7 cities vs. 8
they also got horse this turn
I was thinkign of getting hunting next turn Krill: We got the huge tentacles, all of their stuff is closer to them Darrell: yeah
there power had a nice jump, it coudl be a chariot
I put tech at 0%
parked it on calendar Krill: best move Darrell: but I think Hunting/Archery shoudl be next
then probably we go for feudalsim
Calendar/Iron Working and Metal Casting?
sigh
those are our four tech groups
question is how to order them
Hunting/Archery -> Calendar/Iron Working/ Metal Casting -> Priesthood/Monotheism/Mondachy/Feudalism
I'm tempted to run nothing but gold for 10 turns
AM have a ton of cash saved, then when the academy drops (and get a librarty at the same time maybe), go full tech Krill: Well, with deficit research, Monarchy/Mono/Ph should take 4 turns, 3 100% and 1 breakeven Darrell: after hunting/archery that is Krill: and we can save enough gold to do that in 2 turns
so that's a 6 turn set for those 3 techs Darrell: really?
that fast?
shit
let's do that then Krill: Dude, we make 106 bpt
at -40 gpt
each new city gives us 7 commerce Darrell: we make 130-140 really
but we keep whipping Krill: and costs us about that much Darrell: which is the right thing to do of course
I dunno
I like the thought of gold now, tech when we get the academy/library in thebes (and the pop to work those river cottages)\ Krill: just wondering, where did you ssend hte capital settler?
hmmmmm Darrell: towards blue? Krill: just wondering, that's fine Darrell: kyan's settler/worker did not show up BTW
not sure what that portends Krill: I'll talk to day about it Darrell: we have got to start ripping those forests at USSR Krill: I'll send him close up maps of the area Darrell: while we are getting a GP, just rip those tihings out
CY should go up 10 the next two turns Krill: can we send the wb from Thailand to purple please? Darrell: I already sent the one from usa
gets there 1t faster Krill: even better Darrell: 3 of india this turn
77, 77, 14, 4net
meanwhile settler is doing a 1774, 4settler
so 1 turn of a shit tile
USA gets a clams in 2t, and a fish w3hen the borders pop in 4
taht fish can be shared over to black
or pink even Krill: we need to power out those settlers... Darrell: chops at ussr to me are the best way
the city isn't growing
its +1 food/turn
120H worth of forests at USSR, and we get 4H+F/turn
so that's two settlers if we can find the worker turns
need 3 workers really Krill: send the trio from Japan over now Darrell: yes
that's what I'm thinking too
they aren't dong any good in the east
was tempted to have one chop the forest 74 of the copper on the way Krill: we'll have an extra 3 workers from USA/Brazil as well Darrell: one goes to forest tentacle
one goes to chop
even the forest tentacle one will chop Krill: one goes to white Darrell: oen goes to white? Krill: the second USA worker Darrell: oh for the sheep you mean? Krill: yeah
then it can road to pink Darrell: dude white won't get settled for several turns Krill: Japan
can probably go for a settler Darrell: I put japan on a worker at size 4
this last turn Krill: shrug
slave worker next turn, overflow to settler Darrell: yeah
that was my plan Krill: so send hte USA worker to chop Darrell: but white won't be soon
yeah Krill: I don't really care either way Darrell: that's what I think Krill: want white though Darrell: need to get those chops done Krill: triple food city Darrell: good city
rainbow and grey can wait a bit Krill: not sure on Grey actually
that might be the end of hte NoSpacetentacle
in which case I want that Darrell: we cant do 3 civics swaps in 1 turn can we? Krill: and yes I'm greedy
depends on numbers of cities Darrell: under 14 is the rule? Krill: something like that
in otherwords get Fued fast Darrell: right
so that's the thing then Krill: because we are going to blow past that number... Darrell: save up cash to go priesthood/mono/monarchy/feudalsim
then go for it
how do the discounts work again?
like mono is masonry+poly
do we get 1.2 for that? Krill: yes
fwiw Darrell: Monarchy is pirest or mon, so that's 1.4? Krill: if we do ARchery/Hunting at breakeven
at the current tech rate Darrell: we need hunting at least Krill: we would not have to worry about that turn of breakeven on monarchy Darrell: archery I'm not so sure cna't wait Krill: everything would be a 1 turn tech Darrell: feud is the target though
feud
hunting/archery delay us = suckage Krill: feud. fued, what's the difference? Darrell: yeah yeah Krill: One starts wars and one stops them
shrug
hunting and archyer delay Monarchy 1 turn Darrell: but monarchy is a 1.4 discoutn right?
cause its "or" Krill: yup Darrell: then feud is 1.2 cause its and Krill: Feud will beexpensive at 670
and 1.2
we need to save gold
about 200? Darrell: so beakers are 670/1.2 + 287/1.4 + 114/1.2 + 56/1.4
that's.... Krill: then with the new cities we'll make about 140 bpt
so 5 turns
for Feud
Feud costs as much as the rest put together Darrell: 899 beakers
8 turns Krill: hmmm Darrell: probably 7 Krill: oh ho
idea
offer to front hte other civs goldto techcurrency faster
andthey pay a small percentage to us Darrell:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=342624
good 'ol T-Hawk Krill: even if we ust give 60goldand they give us 70 it'll help us... Darrell: what's our map size? Krill: standard Darrell: 100% sure>?
there are 1139 land tiles that's all I can tell
((1+3+[14*8/100))*67/100)*50/100 Krill: I'm sure Darrell: 1.7152
would be nice to know if its round or floor or ceil Krill: floor
might be something more like 18 cities Darrell: no worries then
still the tech path
but coudl get hunting/archery first Krill: are we going to build an archer? Darrell: 13 turns away Krill: then archery is a bit of a waste Darrell: we can't build archers once we have feudalism Krill: hunting OTOH get for sure Darrell: yeah Krill: hmmmm
Japan...
still, need 2 wb for White
meh, only need 1 more wb for the inner tentacles Darrell: we have an extra WB right now
yeah Krill: so Thailand can do those wb for White Darrell: wish the forest tentacle had some seafood Krill: so japan can build archers fo us Darrell: good spot for it too, with the copper Krill: yup Darrell: and a grassland hill
hmm Krill: that's why it builds the archers
yeah
I'm thinking hte same thing Darrell: barracks first? Krill: send one worker to mine that hill and leave it at size 3 at all times Darrell: its a 1 pop whip Krill: nah
2 pop
with overflow Darrell: not with copper and amine Krill: just get the archers Darrell: barracks?
CG1 can make a big difference Krill: they are there just to upgrade to LB to provide a buffer against axes and swords
agsint them CG1 doesn;t do much
you get good odds anyway Darrell: certainly we want it by the time of vassalge
so why not straight away Krill: that is true though
hmmm Darrell: whip worker, overflow to barracks, whip barracks just in time for archery
get asome archers to nospace's tentacle
err...our second tentacle I mean Krill: Do we need that worker? Darrell: we need all our workers and then some
but I think this is a priority
here's an interesting question
how much do we gamble on black dot? Krill: we get it right now Darrell: from USA? Krill: but what we defend it with? Darrell: archersa dn warriors Krill: hmm, I considered that tbh, doubtedyou'dgofor it
because we need that second worker
and it's harder to get asettler there at size 2 than the worker Darrell: yes
so triple whip a settler at usa
after the second worker
kinda slow Krill: Japan couldjust swap over to a settler nowfor it but tbh I can't see anyone going to settle it just yet Darrell: that's my thought Krill: and I fuigre white isworth it Darrell: I don't fel like we are in a race Krill: couldjust get it from Brazil Darrell: yeah Krill: yeah Darrell: brazil
we don't ahve to worry about ivory spot just yet Krill: I'm 99% certain I can get Kyan ot setle 1S of hte hill Darrell: its a swell spot, but maybe china can get it for us
that would be ideal
otherwise we move navy 1S Krill: yes
that's basically the compromise Darrell: really, from a land tile PoV it only costs us 1 plains tile Krill: and Kyan will have a hard dotmap on his island if he doesn;t settle the 1S spot Darrell: but it does cost coast
be sure to talk to him about pressuring nospace and not giving any cities, and say we are going to do the same
got to cap those guys at 12 or something
since there cities are so goddamn productive Krill: that's the other bonus
I don;'t see a downside for either of us
Kyan will see it the same way... Darrell: yeah Krill: hmmm
that 199 GNP is at breakeven... Darrell: so in 13 turns we will be in OR/HR/Vassalge with the ability to build LBs and with a happy cap of ...10?
then backfill calendar/iron working/metal casting
really?
that's unfortunate Krill: they are making 6 gpt
I'm pretty sure they have currency
otherwise that is absurd
they only make 42 commerce more than us from trade routes
there isno dent in the CY from scis Darrell: 12 beakers/turn for every city running two scientists
12
1.25
*1.25 Krill: 15 Darrell: right Krill: but loss of 4 fpt Darrell: I think they don't have currency tbh
true
I doubt they are doing that at more than 3 cities
at this point in the game Krill: to boost up that much in 1 turn they should have a dent in CY Darrell: currency makes sense for them due to markets as much as anything, two merchants are quite nice under rep Krill: makes it hard to slvae Darrell: let's assme they are doing a 1.4 tech then Krill: which could be a problem for them
150*1.2 Darrell: Well...we do what we plan and see where it goes
I think we ahve a good strategy, let's just execute and wat for it to pay off
I got to run now, back online in about an hour Krill: cya
Summary:
1. Tech path is Hunting/Archery/Priesthood/Monotheism/Mondarchy/Fuedalism, followed by a triple revolt to OR/HR/Vassalge.
2. Japan is going to be on Archer duty, after getting a Barracks.
3. nospace's GNP is scary (at least I did confirm they have Currency).
*cough* Japan is going on archer duty before a barracks due to needing a settler, but getting a barracks by the time Feud is in *cough*
(In other words, slaving a worker in Japan, overflow into settler, build archer on way to size 4 then double slave out the settler). What 1 archer is going to do I don't really know.
We can't see any borders so it must be inner ring and the borders have not yet popped. The only tile I can see that fits is 1NE of the horse. Far enough to settle the end of hte tentacle.
I looked at the tiles, and I think you can just make out a road, and that is where the city centre is. I suppose he just got border expansion and hooked them?
Well, looks like we need Grey city down asap then.
I'd just like to say to everyone lucking this thread, that Darrell doesn't give me the full diplo update every day. He just sent me a chat from Friday that I could have done with reading...
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