I'd point out that we currently have over 200 gold, enough for 3 warrior upgrades. That's not what we want to spend it on, but with 2 warriors in Thailand it shouldn't be an easy city to take. I started to tech early because I was unsure if we were going to have to whip hard, so getting the wines up could be useful to facilitate that whipping. We also have enough settlers to settle Blue and Navy now (plus three workers to road to and improve them), plus black dot, so we perhaps need to be careful with out tech if we need to get to Feud asap.
That's pretty useful. I'm hoping there is seafood in the fog. If not, I think we just settle one west. We need to get some Workers over there right away. We have a Galley that can boat nospace in 2 turns with an Axe/Spear pair. Not sure if we will get away with it but razing that city will be a nice way of controling the south. Their power continues to climb:
Demos:
Since we are finally going vertical, I expect these numbers to climb rapidly. Biggest issue now is Worker turns, we'll probably need to whip a few more.
Had a chat with Kyan last night where we discussed calling the game for nospace. I'm ambivalent. Since I've already turned into an evil, slimey, bastard I might as well play it out . On the other hand, if Kyan doesn't want to play it out, then I doubt rego or Shoot will either. Kyan said he would chase rego down and see what he thinks. If no one else wants to play, I guess its gg nospace, betray you in the next game .
Kyan also said Krill blamed India for the Hydra in pb3 ! Let's all remember, he was the one that beelined Alphabet, enabling the whole thing! We played a role in the organization...after Krill conceived the whole thing.
Quote:novice: I hope the other players paid you well novice: How do your chances of winning improve with us as a hostile neighbour and Kyan and Rego running away? Darrell: okay sorry, had someone in my cube novice: np Darrell: so, let me preface the explanation with the acceptance of full responsiblity for egyptâs involvement novice: ok, we're willing to stipulate that Darrell: Yea
So secondly, I know you turned down my âapologyâ offer alreayd, but, well, I do apologize
its not a defensible action
We broke a deal, and I also broke informal promises made during chats with you novice: broke them for no good reason too Darrell: what we shoudl have done was said âgg nospace, letâs try againâ
you had won the game, letâs be honest about that
you used your traits/UU to claim the two key economic wonders and built a tremendous lead novice: we're playing a shadow game now Darrell: essentially
So anyway, basically this whole thing got organized while I was on my phone, unable to join in, and getting updates on the side. Again, I want to be clear I knew exactly what was happening, and I gave Krill permission to go ahead.
Iâd like to think if I had my full attention on it, it would have worked out differently. But then people liek to think better of themselves
In the end, my rationale for giving the go ahead was the GM. I knew if you cashed that GM youâd be at liberalism in no time and the game was over. It kind of hit the point in the chat where everyone was in and waiting for our reply. And I caved.
(Iâm done typing now) novice: Well I don't understand why you'd trash your reputation like that Darrell: Neither do I novice: Frankly it paints you as unreliable
not in the "backstabbing" sense but in the "not thinking" sense Darrell: If you lurked pbem2, youâll know I had a similar situation then. I sighed a game long NAP with Krill then I signed a game long MDP with Ruff, and I had the situation of being forced to break one deal or the other if Krill DoWâd Ruff.
Its a fair criticism, Iâm aware of the flaw.
I should probably not play games with diplo novice: So you had conflicting deals in this game too? Darrell: No, not conflicting deals, merely a situation where I didnât handle the interatcions between the teams in the correct manner novice: I'm pretty sure the other three would have gone ahead without your consent as well. Would have been much better for you. Darrell: It was not conveyed to me that way, but perhaps. I certainly should have said âcount me outâ.
Regardless of the outcome novice: hell, you were last to play as well
you could have just done nothing Darrell: Then I would have indeed had conflicting deals...the agreement was reached before the save was passed on. novice: so what is the agreement then? Darrell: I agreed to DoW you guys to break the trade routes novice: well and to allow StM kill our merchant with impunity Darrell: nothign I could do about that...well, other than to cheer him on I guess
I mean I was honestly glad he did that, the game was practically over already but with the GM gold? novice: do you think StM would have DoW'ed us if the other had just said, good luck, go for it! Darrell: most definitely not novice: taking the in-game retaliation war on the chin
and trashing his reputation? Darrell: ânovice: I'm pretty sure the other three would have gone ahead without your consent as well. Would have been much better for you.â
but in that context, I certainly wasnât in a position to do anything about it in game
I suspect he would not have done it if we hadnât joined, and your assertion is false
because he knew based on geography heâd bear the brunt novice: By declaring war you became an accomplice Darrell: bare? novice: bear Darrell: Accomplice is accurate. Instigator is not. novice: The punishment is the same Darrell: Depends on the country :P novice: Well, in Norway it is. Darrell: Christ, your Norwegian? novice: duh Darrell: My grandmother is norwegian...sheâs probably mad at me
I thought you were english
is this novice or space? novice: novice
Check my profile
it clearly says Norway in my tagline Darrell: Iâll take your word for it, I donât think Iâve visisted your page novice: No, it's listed in the top right of every post.
Anyway Darrell: oh...never noticed novice: Unfortunately we don't carry the death penalty Darrell: No, you donât. My cousins on facebook all mock the US and our middle age penal system novice: rightly so
you're not in the best company
brb Darrell: No, pretty much autocratic regimes and dictatorships novice: Well I guess we'll keep playing your shadow game
see who claims second place Darrell: up to you
I doubt anyone would object if you posted in the tech thread that you wanted to reboot (or just walk away the winner)
everyone has pretty much acknowledged you won novice: I assume you guys are interested in playing on since you went to all this trouble in the first place Darrell: On the one hand, the game lost a lot of enjoyment for me. On the other hand if Iâm going to be a slimey bastard I might as well see if it works out.
So if I play it out, it would be to win...err, well to win the shadow novice: I guess we can chew it over Darrell: okay...hopefully some day you can forgive me? novice: who knows, maybe I'll find pleasure in taking revenge in-game Darrell: you apparently got first blood in novice: you been talking to Kyan? Darrell: yeah...off and on. novice: yes well Hong Kong is gone Darrell: that means chariots, since we had an axe in the city novice: Maces Darrell: uh-huh
Iâm not that gullible novice: worth a shot
Hey I think you're a nice guy
I'll just be more careful with civ deals with you in the future
So I don't hold a grudge
however
You did take a lot of fun out of a fun game
so that's annoying
I think Spaceman is more gutted
he blaims himself for not keeping the merchant on the galley
gotta go Darrell: sorry, ahd to step out abit
I donât blame space if he holds a grudge, but I do appreciate your words
I think we are getting more loathing that Shoot right now...mostly because our betrayal was less anticipated. Also had a chat with Kyan:
Quote:Kyan: darrell, are you there?
i have news... Darrell: nospace claiming you are running away. and rego. rego I could believe it of Kyan: as in, rego are running away
or rego claiming i am? Darrell: nosapce is claming I am all alone
and that you and rego are running away Kyan: haha
ok, let's deal with both of these in turn. Firstly, i teched MC mostly to keep my end of the deal
forges are nice, i wont lie, but triremes are now vital
ill send 3 towards their lands as soon as possible
secondly, Rego and shoot are dead last as far as i can tell?
im in a decent position but nospace have a huge tech lead on me. last i checked this was a snowballing game Darrell: yeah they are
dead last
frankly when you said you wanted to quit, I figured they woudl too and it woudl be gg nosapce Kyan: ill be honest
im reconsidering that position
actually, thats an understatement
i no longer want to Darrell: hah-hah
good
I didnât either, as I posted in my forum Kyan: but, if the majority of you, rego and so wanted to, i'd not stand in your way
ah.. well thats good then Darrell: If Im going to be a bastard, I shoudl at least get to play it out to the end Kyan: haha win as a bastard then lose as one? Darrell:
well...if you trash your rep at least get a victory right? Kyan: yeah makes sense
im seeing you and krill as my allies this game
mostly because i can chat to you and get on well which helps
every successful game on RB, the winner has had one other civ as their friend
wow, this is sounding more and more like im coming on to you
but you get my drift i hope Darrell:
Yeah, i get it, and agree
shoot isnât going to be strong enough to make a goo dpartner and you alraeady know how I feel about rego this game Kyan: indeed
since im sending units down your way, should we get an official NAP signed?
i think we have some generic one from the anti-great library thing
but something with more specific time Darrell: yeah, I think so
you can name the timeframe Kyan: im thinking longer rather than shorter.
130? Darrell: works for me Kyan: cool
we can re-negotiate nearer the time Darrell: yeah
didnât we have an open ended nap with a 10t cooldown from before? Kyan: maybe Darrell: I was pretty sure we did, just wanted to make sure Iâm not goign crazy Kyan: ive forgotten if so lol
nospace started to chat again now then? Darrell: He is curios as to my rationale Kyan: 'a chance of winning compared to the zero percent chance i had before' ? Darrell: he seems to think my chances of winning have gone down Kyan: the rate you're expanding and with PHI/FIN to sort the economy out after
on a food heavy water map? Darrell: keep a secret?
I have 5 Settlers on their way to various locations Kyan: anything in our chats is confidential from other players if you prefer Darrell: Now...troops are gong to slow me done for a while Kyan: 5!!! Darrell: yeah, letâs just make that the agreement Kyan: blimey
i have 2 Darrell: well I have lost a city, so you will still be keeping up with me Kyan: haha score! Darrell: Krill and I chat so much on this game, we each bring good perspectives
I canât imagine expanding much faster without EXP Kyan: i have room for 15 cities then im done
i actually wish i was on your team
would be fun
funny that the two fastest expanders dont have EXP Darrell: yup, I was observing that
whatâs shoot doing I wonder?
and rego?
just bizarre Kyan: shoot is founding a few cities soon
but no idea
not used to no barbs environment i guess
im going to be stuck at 15 cities Darrell: we cram them in very tight
most are 2 spaced
I love overlapping food resources, as does krill apparently Kyan: i generally do, but havent much on this map
only have one food tile overlapping i think
guess i played it a bit too single player but, might get away with it Darrell: I think most of my food resources overlap Kyan: ouch Darrell: well, I donât have as many Mr. 7 fish
but its nice, especially when you start double overlapping
you can play very fun games sharing resourcs around
*shrug* not really that bothered. Surprising, no? Thing is we kinda got unlucky, we didn't know if they would attack with an axe or chariot, though perhaps we should have slaved an archer. Ah well, I said in the original chat I would have liked to wait ten turns then we'd have LB in every front city. Downside of not playing a fast trait.
Actually, most annoying thing is we lost a granary, so that is 2 forests down
Quote:Darrell: yo novice: hi Darrell: Hey, I think I am going to decline your peace offer at this point novice: ok
do you have a counter offer? Darrell: well, I think the game is a shadow like you said, and if its more of a theoretical game I kind of want to have some war games novice: I understand
I have plenty of war targets though Darrell: you have two realistically, but two is plenty
Iâd at least like to see what happens over the next 10 turns...if you continue kicking my ass Iâll have to come hat in hand of course, but Iâd at least like to give it a shot novice: ok
see you on the battlefield then Darrell: good luck... novice: are you playing now? Darrell: well...not that good
no, unfortunately not
Just posted in the IT thread novice: great... just an excuse to have Krill play your war turns Darrell: he has instructions :P
although heâll likely ignore them
its not rocket science at this piont...I have a spear on a galley to kill your chariot (presumably) novice: well on the upside you can't have many units to move around Darrell: and, uh, might need to get some archers in my coastal cities
1000s
a veritable horde
of warrios novice: just use your formidable GNP to upgrade them Darrell: I think you are the one with the formidable GNP novice: Kyan Darrell: Kyan does indeed have a growing GNP
heâs got lots of cites, cheap libs and heâs FIN
In summary I turned down their peace offer. As suspected, they were hoping for a counter offer. Its no fun being dog-piled, and if they can get one of us to crack the rest will probably follow. He also tried to drive a wedge between us and Kyan. I'm fully aware of how well Kyan is doing, but they are by far the nearer, greater problem.
Krill, those chops in England need to go into an Archer for sure. I actually prefer two Archers in each city to an Archer/Spear pair. If they land chariots we can emergency whip a spear. If I was them I'd come with Swords or Axes next, neither of which get odds on Archers attacking from a boat. I have one Archer already coming up from the south. I do want to get a Settler for replacing Hong Kong, the city from that culture was very important. We need to raze the city across the bay, just too much fog right now.
I sent Kyan a note on borrowing cash for a Fuedalism run, but did not receive a reply. Shoot is getting Metal Casting next turn:
Quote:Shoot: Hey, you around? Darrell: yo
what's up Shoot: got to run soon, but wanted to check when my great prophet was going to be born Darrell: next turn Shoot: also wanted to give you the heads up that india has tiremes wandering around my land Darrell: yeah
we lost a city Shoot: so you should send that galley along the south side of my arm, no the north Darrell: looks like you and I are going to bear the brunt Shoot: oh, I'm sorry Darrell: okay will do
cest la vie
we certainly need tiremes soon Shoot: well, if it makes you any happier I'm second in power (and without MC artificially boosting that yet) so I can force India to devote som troops to me Darrell: I think they hate me more
but I do appreciate it
shoot: as do we, MC comleteing next turn (don't tell anyone though) Darrell: I plan on getting a city of my own Shoot: I don't know, I did kill their GM after telling them they would be allowed to go to my city Darrell: we are trying to figure out if we shoudl go fuedalism or MC next
I am an "accomplice" apparently
had a chat with novice Shoot: anyway I need to run, but wanted to make sure my GP would be safe (and I'll take the similar safe route with the GS to be born in 3t) Darrell: okay
we have a canal city just founded at the south end of nospace's tentacle
would it be safe to go through there you think?
or shoudl we take the long route around Shoot: the one I met you guys at? Darrell: no further down the arm Shoot: or a new one further south? Darrell: yeah Shoot: ok, that should probably be safe Darrell: cool Shoot: I don't have any scouts to confirm, but I do know on the north side Indian culture is now visibile Darrell: I am sure nothing would make them happier than killing our Great Persons Shoot: on my arm
or the coast off it more accurately Darrell: don't forget they have magellan's too Shoot: well, all they would know is they killed a galley
and I would not be in any rush to make them any the wiser Darrell: me neither! Shoot: anyway, talk to you later Darrell: later Shoot: bye
That leaves us as the only team without Metal Casting. I'm not saying its our next tech, I still think Feudalism is better because of Kyan's promise to move Triremes up for us. It does have to be the following tech however (which makes it about 10 turns away).
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. On the other hand, if Kyan doesn't want to play it out, then I doubt rego or Shoot will either. Kyan said he would chase rego down and see what he thinks. If no one else wants to play, I guess its gg nospace, betray you in the next game 
.
! Let's all remember, 
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