[SPOILERS] Bismarck of Mali (NobleHelium and Lewwyn)

[NobleHelium]

So, this is my first game at Realms Beyond. It's also pretty much my first multiplayer game. We'll see how I do, and hopefully Lewwyn can stop me from making too many stupid mistakes.

Any and all lurkers are of course welcome!

Tracker address for my reference: http://mistbinder.org/pbem21tracker.php

[NobleHelium]

Okay, so this is a four-player game. Our opponents are:

Kuro - Pericles (CRE/PHI) of the Ottoman Empire
Gets a musketman that gets a 25% bonus vs melee, mounted, archery units, and an aqueduct that adds +2 happy.
Starts with Wheel (60) and Agriculture (60).

Ellimist - Isabella (EXP/SPI) of Carthage
Gets a horse archer with 5 (instead of 6) strength but a 50% bonus vs melee, and starts with Flanking I, as well as a harbor that adds a trade route.
Starts with Fishing (40) and Mining (50).

Jkaen - Peter (EXP/PHI) of the Holy Roman Empire
Gets a pikeman that gets 100% vs melee, and a courthouse that reduces maintenance by 75% total.
Starts with Hunting (40) and Mysticism (50).

[NobleHelium]

We're playing on normal speed. Barbarians are off, huts and random events are off, elephants/blockades/AP victory/corporations/nukes are banned. Krill is the mapmaker. We will have a coastal start.

All FIN leaders except PRO (Wang Kon) were banned. Suryavarman II (EXP/CRE) was also banned. India and Inca were banned.

We are Bismarck (EXP/IND) of Mali.
Mali gets archers with 4 strength and an extra first strike chance, as well as forges that give 10% gold.
Starting techs are Wheel (60) and Mining (50).

[pling]

Lewwyn - do you have a thing for this leader/civ combo? You're ded-lurking two of them

[Lewwyn]

Lewwyn - do you have a thing for this leader/civ combo? You're ded-lurking two of them

Wang KONNNNNNNNNNNNN!

Either was fine with me. Final decision is Noble's. I do think however that its a good combo.

[NobleHelium]

Yeah it actually occurred to me that we'd probably end up with this combo after we went with Mali. I was actually kind of regretting that pick since I forgot about PBEM 19 before picking it (not really lurking that game). It's Lewwyn's fault for suggesting the civ though. :neenernee

[NobleHelium]

So, some thoughts about pregame planning.

With most FIN leaders banned, I started off planning to take a CRE leader. I like CRE a lot, and I think CRE is in general easier to play than the comparable traits EXP and FIN. I was thinking something like CRE/PHI (Pericles), which has the nice synergy from cheap libraries -> quick academy, and then followed up by cheap universities. As you can see, Kuro took that combination. And funnily enough, the Ottomans was one of the civilizations I thought would be a good pick. The Ottomans are generally considered a good pick because they have a nice UB that gives +2 happy, along with good starting techs. Other civs that looked good with Pericles were Korea (better universities, pretty good UU), China (UB is not so great, but CRE makes theatres cheap, plus good starting techs), and Byzantium (cataphracts, and cheap UB with CRE).

So how did we end up with Mali then? Well, I didn't fully pay attention to the settings voting and kind of assumed we'd get enough votes for quick, but apparently not. And I didn't want to press the issue and potentially annoy the people I'll likely need to work with diplomatically, so it became apparent that we'd be playing on normal. A slower speed obviously means eras last longer and units of a certain era get more use in the game. So it makes more sense to pick a civ based upon UU more than UB, comparatively speaking, to a quicker speed. Skirmishers are definitely one of the best UUs, and we can use them for aggressive expansion in the early game. Slower speed also means chokes/rushes are more effective and have more potential, so skirmishers are a nice resourceless defensive UU to account for that possibility. And Mali has better techs than Korea and Byzantium. Still no Agriculture though, which sucks. Fishing start will be hit or miss in this game.

I thought about the pick order a bit, and picking leader last in a four-player game (when one is already picked) didn't seem like a big deal. Picking last lets you see who else has picked - certain traits (mostly IND, but also CRE) are stronger if there is nobody else with the trait. And there were plenty of choices available that would work well in general or with Mali. FIN/PRO is pretty nice with the synergy with skirmishers, EXP/IND if nobody else has IND, the original pick of CRE/PHI, as well as some possibly-not-as-good fallbacks like CRE/ORG, CRE/IMP, EXP/IMP, or CRE/IND. ORG is probably pretty good in this game, especially if it's on Monarch - it gets cheap lighthouses in addition to courthouses. There should be a significant amount of coast. That also makes FIN better of course, but I really preferred a faster starting leader, and there's something about being the only FIN leader that's not appealing. So anyway, it seemed like there would definitely be enough good leaders available after everyone else had picked.

After Pericles and Isabella were taken, picking Bismark was obvious. The only thing is that Lewwyn is already playing this combination in PBEM 19, but I didn't really want to be the only FIN, so I went with Bismark. If it were AW I'd definitely have taken Wang Kon - and I definitely want to play AW sometime in a group of comparable players. Anyway, we get cheap mints with IND, only IND leader in the game, and EXP is definitely better than CRE in this case because we have a very good chance at getting Stonehenge.

[Ranamar]

After Pericles and Isabella were taken, picking Bismark was obvious. The only thing is that Lewwyn is already playing this combination in PBEM 19, but I didn't really want to be the only FIN, so I went with Bismark. If it were AW I'd definitely have taken Wang Kon - and I definitely want to play AW sometime in a group of comparable players. Anyway, we get cheap mints with IND, only IND leader in the game, and EXP is definitely better than CRE in this case because we have a very good chance at getting Stonehenge.

I was going to rib Lewwyn about already playing playing this combo, but I see you beat me to it.

Anyway, congrats on actually being the only IND in the game... I can alread guess your early-game plan, and best of luck on actually pulling it off.

Edit: Pling beat me to it, too.

[NobleHelium]

Thoughts about game prospects.

In terms of map design, I hope we will not get a segregated map. What I mean by a segregated map is a map with clearly defined areas for each player. Now obviously you want to have equitable land access for each player, but the land should be laid out in a continuous fashion rather than having obvious borders. There are exceptions to this (such as PBEM 17), so a segregated map can definitely be done well, and they even asked for that kind of map there, so no fault on plako. Not to mention that there are plenty of islands that are up for contention, and it is a very good map overall.

PBEM 6, in comparison, was not such a good map for multiplayer. It was a very unique design and I like it a lot, but practically speaking it wasn't very playable. It was more of a philosophical exercise. Playing on it must have felt a lot like playing "no rush 20 minutes" in Starcraft. There's also this other game that Gaspar keeps talking about, but I haven't read about it and it ended before I frequented the forum, I think.

But anyway, I think we're in good hands - Krill is making the map.

Let's see about our opponents' specialties and how they affect us. The Ottoman UU is a pretty generalist thing, so it's just pretty much a good backbone unit when they get to late Renaissance. Not much to be said about it. Same with the HRE, except a bit earlier. The Carthage UU is interesting, however. Base strength is weaker than normal, but they have a bonus against melee (and so spears are much less effective). Not much of a problem for us most likely, as we're generally looking to defend in the early game by building a lot of skirmishers, so a normal HA would be more threatening.

[Lewwyn]

So my 2 cents.

I thought picking Mali first was a pretty good move. There were plenty of leaders we liked and could work with but Mali felt like a good call since it has good techs, good UU, good UB. Also it syngerized well with Wang Kon and Bismark. If we chose leader first there was no guarantee Mali would still be there, where as we could be nearly 100% positive at least one of our leader picks would be available, and in the end both of them were.

Bismark over Wang Kon? I was fine with either as I've said. I think Bismark is probably the overall better choice. We are the only IND civ (score), EXP (score) and we will get pseudo CRE with Stonehenge(Obviously not guaranteed, but still - score). Also cheap Granaries and Mints? Double score. Its just a great combo what can I say.

Now I was dead serious about Wang Kon here. Being the only FIN civ would be huge. Seriously huge. I think if I made the decision I would have gone Wang Kon. A) because of the skirmisher synergy (score) B) Only FIN civ (OMG Score). That's about it. Oh and I would be able to tell all these guys after I whipped them with Wang Kon: "Told you so." PRO may suck, but FIN is insanely powerful. It starts slower put by late game when you're stomping everyone else it totally makes up for it. If you can hold out through the opening on even or just less than even ground ground you'll surge. That's why Mali is so great. Skirmishers are perfect for holding ground. I think Wang Kon of Mali would have owned. Still, I think Bismark will also own. IND and FIN are two traits that are simply 100% better if there aren't any other leaders with the same traits. Basically what I'm saying is between the two, you can't go wrong.

As for our opponents. I don't see too much competition yet. I'm interested to see Kuro and Ellimist as I'm not too familiar with them (Kuro is new). Not too scared of Jkaen. I think Kuro might put up the biggest fight with Pericles. CRE and PHI cheap libs and Unis plus GS spam with the early libs? Yeah that could be strong. The thing about Musket UUs is that there's only a small window between them and Rifles usually. Of course that window is expanded by the normal speed.

One other note. I don't think we have to rush to get skirmishers. We can research it along the line. It'll depend on the map, but just the threat of skirmishers is power.