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fluffyflyingpig Wrote:Rowain, I don't see how this is a fight between them and Plako if they have no army^H^H^H^H an army of banks and Plako's army just sank? So if they have no Army and LP just sank Plako isn't that even more proof that the smart thing was to side with LP? As sunrise said had the chosen otherwise they would simply get killed giving even more land to LP so whats your point?
Besides I have only read this thread. And judging from the diplo posted by rego I would (in this game) side with LP over plako anytime.
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The only observation I would like to offer is that Rego had invested a lot of time and some emotion into his civ and so siding with LP for all the reasons he has stated does make sense...
I find it hard to fault.
LP has upset a lot of people with his assertive game play, postings and diplo - is it all part of winning the game?
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I would have sided with LP just to put the game out of its misery.
Darrell
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Okay I went back to try and "remember" what all was going on then.
It starts about post 982.
Plako says
Quote:You might wonder why it has taken so long to respond. I've had some difficulties to respond after I heard rumours that the real initiator of "the Plako problem" initiative is you. Needless to say I was less than thrilled to hear about this. Pretty clever to threat us joining when you're the one building it up.
Basically this means no more friendly favors. I'll close my borders and allocate my EPs as I like. At this point you can only buy favors from me. Long term deal including ~10-20 gpt+Gems+NAP would make it worth my while to keep borders open and find another target for my EPs and give us a chance to rebuild some trust.
Plako
He's mad because we were one of (the main?) initiator of trying to gang up on him back early on when he was swallowing up WK. So he canceled OB, put all his EPs on us and tried to get us to "buy" his favor with 10-20gpt + gems. We declined.
Later on (post 1016), plako "swallows his pride" and asks for just a NAP to open his borders. He also says
Quote:I notice that the one that was the initiator of our debacle has undermined the effort to slow you down. I thought our effort was common one, but apparently not.
I assume he's talking about Parkin? Judging from some of the lurker comments recently, the thought is that Parkin initiated plako to go all hostile (again, probably talking about cooperating against us?), but then "undermined" it.
Post 1016 was written on May 27th, and I checked back through my chat logs, and it was on May 21 that LP and us first discussed closer cooperation
chat with LP Wrote:Lord: I think we basically have four main options right now
8:34 AM first - don't change anything or make any new deals. Our NAP remains until turn 170, then expires. It'd probably be implicitly understood that we weren't expecting on working together much in the future.
second - basic 20-turn extension of our NAP to turn 190, like we were talking about.
8:36 AM third - the Open Borders for gpt deal I talked about earlier, probably something like 2 gpt initially and increasing 1 gpt every 10 turns or so, in return for a longer cooperation - say NAP to 210
8:39 AM fourth - a serious commitment to a much longer term alliance. We'd supply you with open borders for free, giving you a decent amount of free gold right now and a huge amount post-Economics. We'd also start to seriously contemplate plans for a combined invasion of Plako. I'd require a much firmer agreement for this though - e.g. NAP to 250 - to make sure you wouldn't just turn around and use all the freebies against us.
thoughts? 
8:40 AM with option 4, I'd also be happy to talk about resource gifts when and where needed
After discussions, we agreed with Option 4 on May 23. So I guess that makes sense given the timeline.
1) LP talks about closer cooperation with plako. Instigates him to close borders with me and act aggressive. Whether he was serious about wanting to do that or not is probably irrelevant. He's probably shopping to get the best deal, same as we were.
2) Plako starts acting aggressively towards us
3) We get worried, and initiate chats with LP about a long term alliance which eventually gets agreed to. LP and us sign OB
4) Plako sees that we've signed OBs, and realizes that Parkin has betrayed him. So he "swallows his pride" and wants a NAP with us
At this point, like I mentioned in my post awhile back, what I REALLY wanted to happen was for the coalition to attack Parkin soonish. Had they done that, I would not have interfered. In fact, eventually we specifically signed a NAP with plako hoping for that to happen. What we did not know, and nobody bothered telling us, is that everyone had a NAP with Parkin till T200.
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I wonder how Krill will respond to that post.
Darrell
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darrelljs Wrote:I wonder how Krill will respond to that post.
Darrell
By telling me I'm retarded?
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There should be an entry or two at the start of that post about borders, and diplomacy with WK.
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Krill Wrote:There should be an entry or two at the start of that post about borders, and diplomacy with WK.
Don't forget the secrecy pacts that LP got with each NAP. :neenernee
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scooter Wrote:Apologies in advance for sounding like a jerk (it's really not intended), but why do you care? Sunrise and Regoarrar aren't here to play it so it's more fun for you, they're playing for themselves. They've also invested MANY hours into this, so I'd say they're a little more qualified to make decisions about their civ than you are. Now you can debate all you want what was best for them (lurker thread is a better place for that), but acting as if they owe you something is a little crazy.
To be honest, I don't really care. I stopped following this months ago and just picked up again the other day. I just am trying to further understand the mindset. And they don't owe me anything.
Now what they owe the other players in the game is another matter. I seem to recall a great hue and cry over quitters here at RB. WarlordDR and Aptolyon demo game come to mind.
Besides, as everyone else admitted, this game is over. Even before that there weren't any updates for ages. And Rego should be the last person to turn down someone stirring the pot to inflate postcount, but if he or sunrise and co object I'm happy to stand down.
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regoarrarr Wrote:It's interesting. I don't know what all has happened in our team dynamics with China. I know that a few times ASM has appeared frustrated that we don't "ask for anything"
Maybe I should have said something like that ("give us 5 cities" or whatever). I guess I came at it from the standpoint of they should be the ones proposing things as they're the ones that stand to gain anything. IMO they are the ones who stand to gain the most from LP's (theoretical) demise. I can see some of their frustration though What the eff??? When I talked to you about the possibility of a trade embargo against LP you basically said that I shouldn't tell you anything because you'd have to pass it on the LP. I tried asking sunrise too, but no response from him. After that I was afraid to even mention the alliance plans because I figured you pass on all information to LP. It's hard to negotiate under those circumstances.
edit- pretty sure I also told you at some point that we all had long term NAPs with LP. It's neat that you "wouldn't have interfered" if we had attacked earlier, but it's not like we had anything to attack with either. I only got rifling on turn 185, and I don't think nakor/gaspar ever got rifling.
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