When do we get a warlords epic?

[uberfish]

Hmm yeah, raising treb price sounds like a perfect fix. The things aren't indestructible, and packing your stack with trebs instead of normal units directly weakens your ability in field combat and to hold cities against counterattacks. It's only a no brainer now because they are cheap. Raising the price puts them in a similar position to catapults in the pre-longbow era.

The concept of "protection" by a vassal master can and should be implemented also as peacetime deterrent, not only as hot military war.

The AI already does this. Weak civs sometimes spontaneously vassalize to more powerful ones in peacetime.

[jdotmi]

By the by, I now have a copy of Warlords. (And also World of Warcraft). My eternal gaming benefactor, Chairman Kaga, has airdropped some software in to my lap. "No excuses for you!"

that's a great combo of games. I play lots of WoW, but when I need a break, I play some CIV. Both Vanilla and Warlords. Keeps things interesting when I'm away from the TiVo and work.

[Harleqin]

I figured I'd better put this here than at CivFanatics. I have uncovered a bug that could have quite an influence on games. I haven't had time yet to try and reproduce it in a new game, so I'll give the rest of you a chance to see it.

Basically, I built the Great Wall just because I could. Oddly enough it didn't include one of my cities despite it being linked to the rest of my territory. I figured it might be a minor glitch because it expanded borders in the same turn (I'll put up some screenshots of it tomorrow).

That is a small thing. What worries me is this. When I settled OUTSIDE the protective wall, barbarians still didn't enter my cultural borders. I repeat, cities outside the wall were also avoided. I then noticed something odd. A barbarian warrior was trapped on a square. The cost on one side and my cultural border on the other (no Great Wall keeping him there) and when my cultural border expanded to cover that square... he was booted to the closest free square.

That is worrying. The barbarians should only be blocked out of the area enclosed by the wall, not the area outside. Imagine something like the Rome Epic with the barbarians if a simple, cheap wonder would completely nullify their threat no matter where you were to build a city.

As I said, I need to try and reproduce it, but I'd give others the chance too. I'll put up some shots tomorrow, though unfortunately I don't have of the booted warrior. I can always use the WorldBuilder for experimenting, but I'd prefer to wait to the game is concluded or I get a world map.

[Rowain]

2 things.a) Yes the Great Wall does save your entire territory from Barbs

b) I think this is intentional. At least according to my Manual the GW does hinder Barbs to enter your Borders and it also increases Great General points inside your Borders.

According to Civfanatics:
Prevents barbarians from entering borders on continent.

So its working as intended

[Harleqin]

2 things.a) Yes the Great Wall does save your entire territory from Barbs

b) I think this is intentional. At least according to my Manual the GW does hinder Barbs to enter your Borders and it also increases Great General points inside your Borders.

According to Civfanatics:
Prevents barbarians from entering borders on continent.

So its working as intended

Then I have misunderstood how it's supposed to work. It seems illogical that they can't run around outside the bloody wall. I looks really good on the map, but if this is how it works, then the looks are misleading.

Regardless, that means it just gained a lot of credit with me as a valid build if there are lots of barbs around.

[uberfish]

It's a little illogical, but I think the wonder would be underpowered if it only protected your borders at the time of building the wall. It's the new cities that are more likely to be harrassed by barbarians.

[Harleqin]

It's a little illogical, but I think the wonder would be underpowered if it only protected your borders at the time of building the wall. It's the new cities that are more likely to be harrassed by barbarians.

True, I don't usually build it, but it's going to take a bit more priority now. Of course, it doesn't stop Monte from coming to a visit, but not having to worry about barbs can be huge in some cases. Nothing is more annoying than getting overrun by a horde of men in black.

[T-hawk]

It's a little illogical, but I think the wonder would be underpowered if it only protected your borders at the time of building the wall. It's the new cities that are more likely to be harrassed by barbarians.

It would also create a bizarre gameplay mechanic, where the right thing to do is _delay_ the wonder until you've acquired as many cities and border expansions as you safely can.

The other gameplay trick that involves delaying a wonder is waiting on the Oracle until you research Code of Laws, and we know how we feel about that one...

[Genghis Khan II]

I suggest warlords for at least some games, if not all. It makes civ feel more real, War becomes an issue in the game, unlike the vanilla, when you could raise up an army so huge, destroy the enemy, and feel no exitement at all (you usualy spend about 200 years raising up an army in the first place).

Truechbuchets are not overpowered, as some people say. I was attacked by the most powerful civ (ragnar) in the game in a recent game. I had 2 cities, he had about 5-7.
My city defense was MOWED DOWN by his truechbuchets, but I safely defended against his war elephants, berserks, and everything else he threw at me, even with truchbuchets on his side, and demolishing my defense. His stacks were about 5 times the soldiers in my city, and more advanced. That goes to show that they arent as overpowered as thought.

[mostly_harmless]

It makes civ feel more real, War becomes an issue in the game, unlike the vanilla, when you could raise up an army so huge, destroy the enemy, and feel no exitement at all (you usualy spend about 200 years raising up an army in the first place).

I recommend re-playing Epic 4 to get a comprehensive overview of how exciting wars get in the vanilla version.

Or move up a difficult level,
or turn on raging barbs,
or set AIs to aggressive.


mh