[SPOILERS - PBEM17] Kyan Does Dallas. The Orange Sensation.

[darrelljs]

Darrell - Always was a pleasure to talk, work, and later fight you. :neenernee:

Back at you .

Darrell

[Shoot the Moon]

Before I get any deeper into the postgame stuff, a few words of thanks:

Plako - Thanks again for creating the world I spent hundreds of hours inhabiting On a site where it is the norm for players to bitch about the map, I never found anything about which to complain. This map was exceedingly well-balanced, and made for a very interesting game. So, thank you for the time to make it.

Kyan - Your post on civfanatics first brought me to RB to sign up for this game. I’m now involved in two other games and have really come to love this online community. So, thanks man

Lord Parkin – Thanks for the time you served as turnplayer for the Dutch.

Shoot the Moon - Strained at times, but my firm ally in this game to the end. Thanks for all the help.

Darrell - Always was a pleasure to talk, work, and later fight you. :neenernee

Novice & Spacemanf – Despite the events that brought this game to an end, I genuinely enjoyed playing with you two. I misjudged you guys at the outset (I think I’ll blame Kyan :neenernee) I’m sorry we won’t be seeing Space in any more games. I’m excited I finally get to dig in your thread and see how you got the GLH and pyramids by t68.

Thanks to all the lurkers who supported, helped, and bitched at me this game. It was truly a fun learning experience made better by the involved community.

Nothing for rego? :neenernee

I also enjoyed allying with you. In regards to why I didn't join in the war when it started: I had whipped/drafted my empire really hard for the rego war and really needed some time to regrow/get rid of draft (and sometime double draft) anger, tech some real military, and hopefully get factories and power up. Further, I had already switched out of war civics and didn't have a GA like dave to avoid a 2+ turn anarchy. If dave had gone to war some 10-15 turns later I may have joined in, but as it was my empire was pretty spent. I did however try to support him as much as reasonably possible, at least until I had my own concerns about getting attacked.

I've got to go for now, but I will try to address my voting for dave later tonight.

[oledavy]

Nothing for rego? :neenernee

Already gave him a send off right after World War II. :neenernee

However, after this latest war I've realized just how painful it must have been at times to play those turns. Rego, you have my respect for going down fighting and causing me much more grief than I expected while I was at it. GG

[oledavy]

Oy, lots to respond to.

You're a winner in my eyes dave!

You've pulled out an unexpected victory after consistently playing on despite facing ridiculous odds against a darrell/nospace military double team.

The ones who play the best don't always win, its the ones who take their opportunities best.

Good job!

Wow. Well, you were a lot more decent about this than I (or I suspect a lot of the other lurkers) would have been! Congrats on the (in my mind, exclusive & wholly legitimate) win, Dave =)

this is what i'm going to try to focus on. Whatever anybody's thoughts about the legitimacy of an AP victory, what i am trying to take away from this game is oledavy continually showing a resourcefulness and a never-say-die attitude. That alone is a victory in my eyes, regardless if he played the best game or deserves to have "the" victory. So kudos to Davy for the tenacity and creativity you displayed!

Well said, Pin (and Space).

Dave, your game was a win in so many ways. I'll refrain from debating how many.

+1!

Darrell

Thanks guys

Those units would have still been dead . I maintain the victory popup would have felt hollow to you, but I guess we'll never know .

Darrell

Probably. The whole victory condition never really sat right with me, but I wasn't going to turn it down. I think the lesson to draw from all of this is just to ban diplomatic victories in future RB games or play them as AW.

This amused me. HE declared on US! If it was all an elaborate plan to let us capture a Jewish city to then enable the AP elections whilst hoping that Shoot was fed up enough of the game to vote him the winner then kudos. That would be amazing planning.

I wish I could claim I planned that well

EDIT: Oops, cancelled the NAPs not declared war. It kinda amounted to the same thing, though, in reality.

Nonsense! :rolleyes:

I guess the whole thing depends on what you think of an AP victory in an MP setting. There's going to be no convincing either side of the fence so there's no point trying.

QFT

I think you missed a couple of things TT.

1. We signed or MDP a long time ago as it was clear Dave and Shoot were strong allies.

2. I informed Dave of this fact when he invoked the cooldown clause to give him a chance to reconsider. I think it is to his credit he have it a shot anyway .

Darrell

You never informed me of an MDP :neenernee Well, at least not until several turns after I enacted the cooldown. Not that it would have changed my mind.

And like space i'm done arguing about AP victory....

Darrell

QFT. Everything has been said that needs to be said. Let's put this argument to rest, at least for right now, and focus on reviewing the rest of the game.

[darrelljs]

You never informed me of an MDP :neenernee Well, at least not until several turns after I enacted the cooldown. Not that it would have changed my mind.

I was refering to this chat from December 1st:

Darrell: so it looks like its just you and not shoot?
Dave: yep
Darrell: Hmm...so you really want to fight me and novice on your own?
Dave: who said anything about both of you?
Darrell: Well, you did engage both cooldowns at once so that seemed like what you were shooting for. We have discussed things and now have an agreeement to switch to 100% military (full space race pause) until you are at peace with a NAP to cover the end of the game. I thought you should know that before we move ahead.
Well
I was going to type some crap up to try and talk you out of it so we can continue our space race, but that's kidno f lame. So I'll just leave it at what I said and let you be
Dave: fair enough
just didn't like having my options limited by an NAP
Darrell: Okay, I understand .
The game is more interesting this way anyway

Reading it now I was way too vague, sorry about that .

Darrell

[NobleHelium]

I thought it was your intention to keep the MDP secret.

[oledavy]

Now that the game is over and I've had a brief look at the lurker thread, I feel like Gaspar probably has some choice words he's been saving

Gaspar, if you have anything to say about this game or how I can improve my play, I'd be more than happy to hear it.

EDIT: And so I'm not trolling your thread - on your "ethical" dilemma - I think in general you're WAAAY too cute with your diplo, but ultimately you should do what's going to bring the most enjoyment for the rest of the game without ruining the game for others.

In your analogy, attacking nospace with Shoot while leaving Darrell to launch would be the PB4-Zulu solution. Attacking them both would be, erm, I don't have an analogy. I, of course, have a strong opinion as to what *I* would do in your situation, but that's not appropriate in my standing as a global lurker.

What would you have done here? Now that it's all said and done.

Fwiw, I'm not way to cute in my diplo on purpose. Irl I'm a fairly happy-go-lucky guy - what you see in my diplo is pretty much how I interact with everyone.

PBEM25v Spoiler to Everyone Except Mackoti & Plako

In PBEM25v when I tried to be devious in my diplo with Plako, it just came across as painfully transparent and left me feeling like a douchebag. I think the lesson here may be I just shouldn't do diplomacy period. I've come to really prefer AW or CTON games.

[Gaspar]

Now that the game is over and I've had a brief look at the lurker thread, I feel like Gaspar probably has some choice words he's been saving

Gaspar, if you have anything to say about this game or how I can improve my play, I'd be more than happy to hear it.



What would you have done here? Now that it's all said and done.

Fwiw, I'm not way to cute in my diplo on purpose. Irl I'm a fairly happy-go-lucky guy - what you see in my diplo is pretty much how I interact with everyone.

PBEM25v Spoiler to Everyone Except Mackoti & Plako

In PBEM25v when I tried to be devious in my diplo with Plako, it just came across as painfully transparent and left me feeling like a douchebag. I think the lesson here may be I just shouldn't do diplomacy period. I've come to really prefer AW or CTON games.

I think you frustrated me early on, Dave, partly because at that time I had blinders on in favor of nospace given how everything went down in the beginning. (And re: Kyan's fluffing up of nospace's position - I still don't understand why anyone was surprised that Sury of India jumped out to an early lead. That's what Sury is for.)

I think obviously in terms of your play wanting to swap to a workshop econ as Fin was pretty silly and I think your reading of the game early on was off but all in all you acquitted yourself quite well considering the competition. To not go belly-up and get embarrassed in this field is an accomplishment onto itself.

Darrell said in his thread that all lurkers are assholes and he's dead on. I think you were a credit to the game and you're a credit to the community and if I suggested otherwise at any other point in this thread its just because I'm an asshole. Just ask the two guys who played the Netherlands before you.

And as far as that situation you quoted, I think you handled it in the best way possible.

[darrelljs]

Darrell said in his thread that all lurkers are assholes and he's dead on. I think you were a credit to the game and you're a credit to the community and if I suggested otherwise at any other point in this thread its just because I'm an asshole.

Oh it was about half tongue in cheek and half pissed off at feeling misunderstood. But I know I've been an asshole to players as a lurker, I think it just comes with the territory. We spend most of our time criticizing the players who are just by and large doing their best with the limited knowledge they have. I'm already over my little fit of rage. As I mentioned to novice, I don't care at all what people think about me. Clearly my post volume and compulsive checking of the forum over the last 48 hours shows just how out of touch I am with my own psyche .

And now, back to Dave. My one observation which I mentioned to you in chat during the game was that its a bad idea to pave mature Cottages with Workshops, especially as FIN. I didn't work too hard to convince you, cause I wanted to beat you of course, but I'd be happy to discuss this in further detail if you remain an unbeliever .

Darrell

[oledavy]

I think you frustrated me early on, Dave, partly because at that time I had blinders on in favor of nospace given how everything went down in the beginning. (And re: Kyan's fluffing up of nospace's position - I still don't understand why anyone was surprised that Sury of India jumped out to an early lead. That's what Sury is for.)

I didn't realize until reading today just how brutal that early dogpile on NoSpace was, Kyan only glossed over it. I don't mean to be too moralizing, but man....that was cold

And now, back to Dave. My one observation which I mentioned to you in chat during the game was that its a bad idea to pave mature Cottages with Workshops, especially as FIN. I didn't work too hard to convince you, cause I wanted to beat you of course, but I'd be happy to discuss this in further detail if you remain an unbeliever .

THIS

Don't worry, there's going to be a lovely post coming very soon on every mistake I made in empire management But I'm posted out for tonight.

In the meantime, Darrell, you should check this out

http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showp...tcount=510