[SPOILERS] Serdoa goes to war II

[Serdoa]

Brian got probably another 2 axes. I got my 7th city but still miss a shitload of workers - which I can't build now because I need to get another axe and chariot... I don't understand what he is doing tbh. He won't get anywhere against Commist, he shouldn't attack Lewwyn if he has not a clear advantage (and he hasn't), scooter won't fold easily as well and I am leading in all categories for quite some time and am the second strongest in actual military (Commist has more soldier points, but just for the techs).

Brian, get settlers and workers - even if you can take the city of someone, maintenance for distance will not make it a winning proposition. Heck, my seventh city did up my expenses by 10 (!) gold.

[Serdoa]

Ok, T50-Update time. Not that it will be big or anything, I am sorry. First, I got my second great person. I had odds for a Prophet, a Merchant or an Engineer. Anyone wanna guess what I got?

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Have you gone for the terribad Prophet?



Gratulations, you are right. Not sure what to do with him. I would need to research 4 techs (Medi, PH, Poly, Mono) for him to bulb the first "worthwhile" tech, Theology. Thats ~7 turns of research to get a religion which I might not be able to spread around widely (due to Commist), to get a wonder which I won't build (AP) and to get another wonder (Hagia) that nobody needs. Whats left is Theocracy. Thats of course kinda nice - if you have a religion.

So, at first, I am not too interested in bulbing Theology with him. Of course, taking a second look: We need Poly for Literature, which in turn is needed for GLib and NE. Something I really want to get. Meditation is basically finished already (50/69). PH and Mono are pre-reqs for Monarchy what is needed for Feudalism. And Feudalims gets us LBs. Lets look shortly at them and at the dreaded cataphracts:

LB - 33h - 6 str, +25% city defense, +25% hill defense, 1 first strike
CP - 60h - 12 str, no defensive bonuses

LB will be city defenders. As all my cities (except for one and the capital) are on hills, they will have

+25% city defense (initial)
+25% hill defense (initial)
+25% from hill
+25% fortify
+50% Guerrila 2
+50% Walls in city
-------------------------
+200% = 18 str. As long as I have enough in a city, he won't take it. And on a hammer to hammer basis I can build two times as much as he can - taking into account the unit upkeep thats probably 1.5 times as much (using the other 0.5 for building wealth). Even if he takes C1,Cover1, he will only have 13.2 str and my LB should still be at 16.5 str. I think that should be enough to hold out against him.

So, for defense, I need Feudalism. I want Construction for the WE and the catapults of course as thats my attack force. Basically, damage his troops badly when he attacks into a bunch of LBs but give him a chance to take the city and then mob-up his left-over troops with WEs and catapults.

Unfortunately, he is not an AI and I am not as good at civ warfare as PBEM25 clearly showed. So, I am not sure if that actually makes sense or - for example - if I should simply forget the LBs, let him take the cities as is and then retake them with cats and WEs. Though I think a bunch of defending units is needed to make him actually commit more then one unit.

Anyhow, another thing I need to test is how the -50% of the WE actually works. I think it should make his Cataphract being only 8str + bonuses, but I am not sure. And will for example C1 be 1.2 str added still or only 0.8 then?

Back to the discussion about the prophet: I might bulb Theology with him, I certainly need to research the techs for that sooner or later anyway. But even then, I am not sure if I really win anything with it. Without Phracts? Sure I would. Get 2 GS in the meantime (takes ~15 turns), research Paper after Theo was bulbeb, used the 2 GS for Education and build half-price Unis and Oxford. Won't happen unfortunately, because thats around the time I expect Cataphracts to start showing up.

Instead of bulbing, I could settle him. Thats 2h, 5 gold, 3 beakers right now. Due to the Grocer and soon Library that will be 2h/6.25g/3.75b. So around 10 commerce and 2 hammers which if I use that standard 1:2:3 formula is another 3 commerce. So 13 commerce total. Theo costs 435 beakers. Thats ~34 turns of him settled to pay the same. If I settle him T51, thats T85 - if I don't get hit by Phracts thats for sure still in the range of "making sense" I feel. Though I'd really appreciate to have someone who understands that part of the game better then me explaining me if I am wrong somewhere on that mechanic.

Lastly of course I could start a golden age. Um, well, not at 1000 BC maybe

Overview of my little place in the world:

As can be seen still at 7 cities. I'd love to get to 8 and 9 right now, but I can't. I have to get some stuff built first. Thats btw before I ended turn, the city in the southwest is at 4 pop now and the capital has a completely different tile usage.

Speaking of it, my capital:

In red are the tiles I am going to work as soon as I have grown to 10 (EOT51 to 9, EOT52 to 10). The FP will of course get farmed. The other 4 citizens will get employed as merchants and scientists. I get one food from the settled GM, so I am fine in that configuration. I will also make 13 hammers per turn. 15 if I settle the GP. Thats enough for 3 turn settlers and 3 turn workers (the workers with some overflow even). 7 hammers more for 2 turn settlers / workers - thats actually possible if I use 2 specialists instead for working the PH and GLH mine. 2 more turns and I should be able to start get back into the expansion game for real (though right now I should still be on equal city count or have more then all others).

Last, the demos:



Maintaining a slight lead at crop yield while having substantially more MfG then the others. Not sure how I did that tbh, I don't think I have that much more pop. My 7th city is still working an unimproved sheep and my 2nd city is really, really ****. Never ever should have settled that. Honestly that city is so bad. I try to tell myself all the time that it was necessary but ... I don't know, I mean sure, I could get the crabs online and that helped the capital. And I had no way to pop borders and certainly didn't want to invest in a monument either. Still, I think I should have gone for AH early and settle the gold/pigs and then the horse/fish site. Maybe after that even the corn/cow site up north before finally with city 5 going for the copper site. I would have had SH and Maths at that point and could have settled Nidaros 1NE for fish, bananas or 1N directly on the incense. Oh well, I am leading in the demos so I am not doing it completely wrong it seems.

Btw: Everyone else is whipping, so I guess I should lose my lead as soon as they start growing their cities. Only that they have no more then I do right now. I expect scooter to pull ahead though - but he trashed his econ in the process already and if Commist is picking up on that, they should attack him first. Assuming that we all get a source of elephants, but I can't imagine that not happening. Though I think Brian and scooter will fight about one if I look at the culture down there. I on the other hand seem to have 2 sources uncontested right now, one getting settled with city 8 or 9.

[Krill]

Phracts can't take cover.

[Serdoa]

Thanks Krill. Funny, I checked for all different kind of things, but not if it actually can take the promotion. Though that does mean he will be at 14.4 against 18 str.

Btw: If someone is wondering why I talk about walls when I calculate defender strenght as if catapults wouldn't exist, that is because if he wants to bulb Guilds (what I would do in his shoes) he can't research Maths, otherwise the Engineer will bulb Construction and then Engineering first. So, he would need around 10 turns more after he can start the Cataphracts production to produce Catapults as well. And then he needs to get them over to whomever, which in itself takes another ~10 turns.

Apart from that, lets play with the numbers: I expect him to have Guilds around T75 if he can bulb it. Lets assume 10 cities mature enough for production and that he wants around 20-30 Cataphracts. That will add production time of at least another 6-12 turns (one or two whip cycles, I am not sure if they upgrade from HAs if you have them in the queue before, but I assume for now that this is the case). Plus movement time to reach me - thats hilly or jungly terrain, so at least another 6 turns. That adds up to around T87 - T93 for 20-30 Cataphracts. Without collateral support though. Thats another 40 turns from now on. I should be able to get 3-4 GP in that time, 5 if I get somehow TGLib or NE (or both) build in between. I might actually be able to bulb my way to ...

Medi - self (1)
PH - self (1)
Poly - self (2)
Mono - self (3)
Theo - bulb
Paper - self (9)
Education - double bulb
CoL - self (5)
Alpha - self (4)
Philo - bulb
Lib - self (14?)
Nat - libbed
GP - self (10?)

So a total of ~50 turns if I estimate around 80 research later on. Though that should be more so probably around 40 - 45 are realistic? 35 would be needed to make it viable to draft muskets. Well, it was an idea.

[Serdoa]

Demos EOT51:

Same as all the other turns.

I am producing 2 settlers right now which will both be whipped next turn. One will go and settle elephants (T55) and one I'm not 100% sure yet. Normally I would settle for the gems now, but I want to have an axe, chariot and spear in that city due to Brians military right now. Or 2 archers... I really think I should get Archery. It's a 1 turn research I think, but it would surely be helpful (and I guess I need it for LBs anyway, eh). Anyhow, I need some sort of defenders other then warriors for that city. Now, I might still settle it because I have an airport. I can send a chariot with the settler + get an axe into the city via the airport. Spear the turn after. Though I plan to use this for the elephant city. Though nobody should have anything in that water I think, so I should be save to settle and get the defender 2 turns later.

I will settle another city for the town-thingy as well shortly. Just have to see how to do it best. I want to have Currency by then, for 2 trade-routes, both Intercontinental at that point. Probably will research that first.

But overall, I am still lost as to how to approach this game best. I had some plan for doing the same as N7 (-> libbing Communism) but that was before Commist got Machinery... I am currently thinking about getting to Banking asap, for Merc. At 10 cities that are 60 beakers + half of the techs I want anyway. Feudalism as discussed last post, MC for forges. Leaves only Machinery and Guilds to research and Guilds would have the added benefit of +1 hammer for workshops, which I need sooner then later for my planned farm/workshop/specialists economy.

[Serdoa]

Well, T53 brought news - I am finally not longer first in mfg and crop. Thats probably because scooter finally outsettled me (was time, with him having imp and exp and me building 2 wonders...) and because I whipped away 4 pop. I am regrowing those though and will settle 1 city T55, one T56 and probably another 2 shortly thereafter. I am getting some more workers first though, no sense in settling like crazy when scooter is the only one keeping up. What the others do? Well:

Brian is just producing military - I hope he isn't trying to use it against me, but just in case, I made sure to be second in soldiers. Oh yeah, thats also a reason why I am not keeping up with scooter, I am actually building military to defend myself in an AW-game - definitely not a winning move, but I am not Krill so I have to deter Brian in other ways. He has my graphs should hopefully should be aware of that and direct his units elsewhere. I would suggest into the west, where scooter settles onto him. Or the northwest where Commist is trying to cataphract us all to death.

Lewwyn is... honestly, I have no clue what he is doing. Playing along? He is not first in GNP - thats me, despite having whipped away so much pop and not working any cottages. I guess my settled GP and GM help though. But I am sure he'll catch up. If for no other reason as that he will gamble when Commist sends the Cataphracts that they will not come for him. What probably will be true.

Commist is just teching to Cataphracts, settling some cities on the way. I am thinking about how I could delay him, but I fear he'll come for me then, just out of spite. Unfortunately I suspect he'll come for me anyway, because getting Pyramids and SH is certainly a nice price. I will try to send him a message that I am prepared for him... just have to think about how to do that in an AW-game. Showing troops, like WEs, certainly will help. But apart from that?

Lastly, I have a gift for Seven. But thats in the next post.

[Serdoa]

It's dotmap time!

red are the ones I have already settled, yellow the ones I intend to settled and white are some "Are you crazy?"-dots (no, I refuse to call them pink dot, thats just not accurate enough ).

Next are the northern elephant and western sheep/whale site. Elephant I think goes without explanation. The sheep/whale site is simply for being up and running without me investing much. I need a worker for the sheep (will be built in the cap starting EOT55 and airlifted over), but apart from that it has already an farmed oasis and a workshopped forested plains hill. Not a great city long term, but a quick contributor short term. And thats unfortunately what is needed to be able to defend against Commist.

[Serdoa]

No comment on my dotmap... not even from Seven?

Anyway, Demos for T54:



More then decent GNP (in fact more then double the average) and that will only grow I assume. Production is fine, scooter is killing me in that right now. I still don't know what exactly is calculated into that stat. Only raw production or also bonuses? I think I read somewhere that only overall bonuses will be calculated into it, like a forge. But not the IMP-bonus when building settlers and no chops or whips. Somebody can confirm that?

Oh, and don't mind that crop yield. I have whipped many cities, had to keep some small. Reason is that I wanted to make sure that I am prepared if Brian gets frisky. Thats why I also teched Archery, just in case. Power-Graph now:



In all honesty, he should not go for me now, because I am actually having as only other power on that planet a comparable military and - even more importantly - scooter is the one who is settling up on him. They should have clashing borders already. But you never know, especially with "new" players. At least I can't remember that Brian has played here before. Anyway, maybe that all is no preparation for aggression at all but just him mashing end turn and not thinking about what he is doing. He hasn't updated for a long time and those turns are probably the most important. Who knows...

[Ceiliazul]

No comment on my dotmap... not even from Seven?

That beautiful map did deserve a comment, sorry we let you down.

How about this: the Southern Rice/marble spot might do well 1S. Freshwater from oasis and copper, from what I can tell.

Also, bummer about that unavoidable wasted plains tile adjacent to your capital. At least you can chop it for a few hammers.

[Serdoa]

Hey Ceil, thanks for your comments. You are right that moving the southern city will make it stronger long term. Unfortunately, it is not on a hill. And this will be a frontline city against Commist, so no way I plant it on a plains tile, no matter if the city is stronger. Doesn't help if the enemy razes it.

Speaking of razing cities, I'll get the award for doing that the first time in this game (I believe). But, lets start the story from the beginning:

Knowing that this is a mirrored map, I was sure that Commodore has planted a city by the gold, similar to what I did. It simply is the spot making the most sense, imo. Also I planted a city on the same water-body on my side, thats the copper/fish/deer city. This water body has a 1-tile island with a town as well - so obviously I need to get a galley and troops over there. So why not use them for some... exploration first? If Commist has planted his gold-city on the same tile I did and popped borders, he will see me before I can one-move him (despite my 3-move galley). But if he has not and if he defends his city with a warrior, like we all seem to do except for Brian... well



Uh Commist, I think you are in trouble. Checking odds if I attack with the axe



Yeah, good enough. And as expected



That will be good for 1.5 turns of 100% research (and that is despite me having hired 2 merchants in the cap + 1 settled GM in the cap). Apart from that, that was at least 11 commerce he lost right there. Probably gained as much in less maintenance though Still, thats 44 hammers (Imp-bonus on the settler) + 40 for a Lighthouse + 20 for a monument + 10 for a warrior + I assume another 40 for a Granary (LH and Monument was still intact after I took the city, Granary I just assume because building a Lighthouse before the Granary in a city without seafood doesn't seem smart. In total he lost there 154 hammers. Oh... he also lost 1 happy throughout his empire

A good day to be a [strike]viking[/strike] pirate.