Commodore Wrote:WW is hell on a wolf newbie, no worries on my account Pin.
I drew wolf on my first go & I can heartily concur with that. Partly coz you don't know quite what you're trying to fake, partly coz you are faking stuff which is harder work. And I find being a Wolf triggers all my "mustn't let down the team" stress, whereas being village I treat it much more like the only person I'm letting down is myself so I'm much more relaxed. If that makes sense.
pindicator Wrote:And I wasn't getting much help in the wolf thread either.
That's a real shame You guys were unlucky with 2 of you being new (that I know of, obviously); coz the only good thing about drawing wolf on your first go is when you can talk to someone about the game who you know isn't lying to you. Gaspar & uberfish helped out a lot when I first played. The problem with trying to help people out in the game thread is that the person being helped really should be suspicious about a) the motives of the helper, and b) the advice given.
pindicator Wrote:What upset me was that the only evidence was I was new or acting new (which agian, was because I was new). It was like getting an automatic strike and that seemed entirely absurd.
For what it's worth I think you played well - you weren't really on my radar till late on, niggling doubts but mostly I thought you were innocent. But by the Night I died I was thinking you reminded me of my first game - I hid for a while behind hamming up my newness and my confusion. You pulled off a better defence than I did tho (I tapped into feelings of playing crap & collapsed, better to go out raging it makes people worry more that they've done the wrong thing voting for you) So I wasn't suspicious of you for being new, I was suspicious coz I was starting to think you were exaggerating your newness if that makes sense?
I'm definitely curious what made you pick up on MNG, I'm guessing it was an only-a-wolf-would-know thing but I can't offhand remember anything he said that would flash wolfy-warning bells?
I think wolves were unlucky in general that 2 of the new players drew wolf, and the power balance as currently revealed is biased towards village imo
Pindicator's innocent newb act was pretty good, but what he didn't do was actually make the case for novice being a wolf, ie: Novice is the last white wolf, he's desperate, and he's just gambling with the role claim to try and clear himself if Pind flips black wolf.
I also think the black wolves would have been better off trying to get Pling lynched during the day if they thought she was on the other wolf team than killing her. Since lynching Pling would use up the village's turn.
pindicator Wrote:I dunno, I don't think I played such a great game. I did a good job of keeping the eyes off me, but that's because the format allowed me to honestly get into the role of hunting the other pack.
What upset me was that the only evidence was I was new or acting new (which agian, was because I was new). It was like getting an automatic strike and that seemed entirely absurd. And then he kept pushing and pushing with no further evidence and I'm thinking to myself "What the hell? This guys big evidence is that I'm new and he won't let go?" I think I laughed off the first one or two, but when I made my MNG - Ichabod connection I thought I was on to something. Actually, Ichabod pushing with so little evidence was what made me more sure I was on to him as a wolf.
I see my James Joyce comment was what stung him. Sorry, I didn't mean that to upset you. For some reason I really had a hard time of getting into the meat of what Ichabod was trying to say in his long posts. I had to read and re-read and re-read... and I still read it wrong!
Then by that point my guess is we were both so mad at each other that we had blinders. A simple check of Ichabod's posts could have showed me that he wasn't paired with Tasunke, but I was dead set on that by then.
No worries, man.
Btw, about being new, the best advice I can give you is: you can't take the game too seriously, because it's not a rational game per se. That's why I was going about gut feel being better than arguments.
You see, the only time there's some sort of concrete evidence in this game is after someone used a power role, like Novice against you. And that makes the game boring, because the charm of the game is the lack of ways to prove things until it's too late.
So, yeah, you are going to get stressed about people going against you with things you perceive as weak reasoning/not based on evidence. But that's all the players have. There's no way to make a confirmed case. Heck, there are games where you see wolves voting more against wolves than certain villagers, so even vote record doesn't say much.
It's not because you're new that people are going to suspect you based on bad reasoning. It's because that's the game. Next game they'll call you on "playing like in WW12 where he was a wolf" or "he's not following his standard, so he must be a wolf". It's the same thing...
Yeah, I could have done a better defense. The problem was that by day 4 I didn't really want to play any more. The game just made no sense to me and I was only continuing as I did because I had other people counting on me. I pointed out the novice-as-white-wolf-tracker possibility in the wolf thread, but I didn't have the spirit to bring it up in forum. Kind of hard to give a great defense when a part of you wants to be lynched...
pling, I won't out and out say what the tell was (yet), but I'll put the post that has it in the spoiler below:
Mr. Nice Guy Wrote:1. Much as I hate it, WW is a game in which Occam's Razor applies, especially in the beginning with plentiful targets (Those who have played with me in the past know that I would rather think about reverse- and double-reverse-psychology.
2. On Day 1, the simplest answer is that a wolf will lay relatively low.
3. uberfish has not laid low. In fact, my first reason for voting for him was that he made a high-profile statement. Though I believe Occam's Razor doesn't necessarily apply to uberfish, I don't have anything more than distrust toward him, and even then I have to throw out #1 and #2 to try and get a lynch going on him. Not going to happen.
4. I believe that the Europeans will be willing to join me in putting pressure on Bigger over my night, and with any luck that will provide some information. It may not be information about Bigger, per se, but any information at this phase is good.
5. If #4 proves true, I believe we will have a fairly easy choice that will propel us toward a wolf lynch, or better yet more than one wolf lynches.
I hope that makes sense. For the reasons outlined above, I would ask people to join me in voting Bigger. Or at least, to comment on why they would not vote on him, beyond the fairly cheap "because he's new".
It's a tell because of NobleHelium's announcement about the villager PM just two and a half hours before this post. Not the villager announcement, but the one in the wolf thread (I assumed he posted the same thing in both wolf threads). But because it's a wolf tell I couldn't just say it in the game thread
It's a tell because of NobleHelium's announcement about the villager PM just two and a half hours before this post. Not the villager announcement, but the one in the wolf thread (I assumed he posted the same thing in both wolf threads). But because it's a wolf tell I couldn't just say it in the game thread
We have no clarification about the villager PM in our thread, so it's possible you came to the right conclusion for the wrong reasons
We have no clarification about the villager PM in our thread, so it's possible you came to the right conclusion for the wrong reasons
So the whole thing was one big coincidence?
Well, since it was our team that asked for it that does make sense. When you read our wolf thread you'll see Noble references Occam's Razor in his announcement there. I thought that the idea popped into MNG's head to reference it from that announcement. Oh wow.
So the whole thing was one big coincidence?
Well, since it was our team that asked for it that does make sense. When you read our wolf thread you'll see Noble references Occam's Razor in his announcement there. I thought that the idea popped into MNG's head to reference it from that announcement. Oh wow.
Which shows why there are so many strange, gut-feeling theories in this game because they are sometimes successfull .
In other words, vote at random
Who's getting night killed tonight? My bet's on novice since he can theoretically follow again tonight and I don't think a wolf wants to take that risk
You guys were unlucky with 2 of you being new (that I know of, obviously); coz the only good thing about drawing wolf on your first go is when you can talk to someone about the game who you know isn't lying to you. Gaspar & uberfish helped out a lot when I first played. The problem with trying to help people out in the game thread is that the person being helped really should be suspicious about a) the motives of the helper, and b) the advice given.
So I wasn't suspicious of you for being new, I was suspicious coz I was starting to think you were exaggerating your newness if that makes sense?
