I suppose I could pass for a large, bearded lady. YMMV. I live near Boston, so I definitely won't miss any Aerosmith references. Anyway, let's keep this train a-rollin...
NH, Lewwyn and I had a long chat about the start last night. Its long and not super entertaining but we do insult NobleHelium's womanly hands in there, so worth a read.
Spoilered for length:
Quote: Noble has joined
Lewwyn has joined Lewwyn: hey Gaspar: Just seems silly to be having 2 conversations about the same thing NobleHelium: so if we move Lewwyn: lol NobleHelium: we can get whipped worker eot9 Gaspar: yeah NobleHelium: move SE for example
is that same speed as straight build Gaspar: i just noticed
this is kind of a shitty capital Lewwyn: SE? NobleHelium: yes it's shitty by rb standards Lewwyn: yes NobleHelium: yes SE gets us inner ring corn Lewwyn: SIP is shitty
lol Gaspar: like ph sheep and corn isn't bad NobleHelium: it's not abysmal Gaspar: but fucking plains everywhere
yeah, SIP is pretty bad NobleHelium: we still have five riverside grassland Lewwyn: theres a few good river grass NobleHelium: ok 4 Gaspar: but if we go say SE NobleHelium: one is corn Gaspar: and theres nothing there NobleHelium: i think SE might be coast Lewwyn: well Gaspar: your cap has fuck all Lewwyn: you could go 1 north Gaspar: also no islands sucks Lewwyn: and see 2 tiles north Gaspar: i like the minigame for ICTR Lewwyn: if theres something you can go PH NobleHelium: there's lots of forest there
so chance of there being any resources
is quite low Lewwyn: if theres not you could Settle on that grass Gaspar: man that PH is so ballsy NobleHelium: the ph isn't that ballsy Gaspar: im a lot more of a gambler than NH NobleHelium: if you don't mind delaying by 1 turn
because we can still move off Gaspar: but i dont think I can take that risk NobleHelium: and settle SIP one turn later
but yeah i don't think we can settle on the ph Lewwyn: I like the PH
just putting it out there Gaspar: if we werent exp china NobleHelium: there's too much forest Gaspar: i wouldn't even debate this
i fucking love playing china
just want to say that NobleHelium: what does that mean
you wouldn't debate it because you'd just SIP
or what Gaspar: correct
its not worth it Lewwyn: if it wasn't china Gaspar: im off tomorrow
so if the save comes in
uh Lewwyn: arg I'm at the restaurant again so I need to run home now, back in 10 minutes Gaspar: call out NH NobleHelium: what
call me out what Lewwyn: BTW I vote for PH plant
but brb Gaspar: call in sick to work so we can debate the settle for hours NobleHelium: oh
i rarely get sick
anyways i do have memorial day off
i don't see how lewwyn gets a 3-day weekend though
in fucking china Gaspar: that doesn't help me tomorrow NobleHelium: chinese holidays are all on the first of the month
because the communists just invented them out of thin air Gaspar: lol NobleHelium: except for the two traditional lunar holidays (new year's and midautumn)
Lewwyn has left NobleHelium: anyways Gaspar: we need to settle on a naming scheme soon too btw NobleHelium: if we were to gamble on the PH plant the max we'd lose is one turn
but i really don't see us gaining anything
that's why i asked whether the warrior was manually placed
it means they wanted to show us the corn Gaspar: yeah
I agree
to discourage moving to the PH
since theres probably nothing there NobleHelium: anyway i actually hate plains hill sheep
but it is 3f at least Gaspar: yeah NobleHelium: ok
straight worker build ends eot8
so even moving + slave
is 1t slower Gaspar: yeah
1t with an extra warrior is a debatable proposition
Lewwyn has joined Lewwyn: so what did you talk about while I walked NobleHelium: i told him that
i don't see how you get a three-day weekend
because all chinese holidays except the two lunar ones are on the first of the month Gaspar: the more important part of the conversation
was that we determined they put the warrior where they did NobleHelium: hey i still want to know how he's getting a three-day weekend Gaspar: to discourage us from going PH
since its probably terrible Lewwyn: ah yeah I don't have a holiday NobleHelium: i determined that ages ago i was just pointing it out to gaspar :P Gaspar: i couldn't care less, my job sucks and I work all weekend Lewwyn: I havea 3 day weekend every week Gaspar: i was at work, douchebag NobleHelium: oh i see Lewwyn: since I don't have work on friday Gaspar: afk slitting wrists because everyones life is better than mine Lewwyn:
but yeah
I think the warrior was placed
on purpose NobleHelium: lewwyn did you know chinese schooling was 5.5 days until about 18 years ago Lewwyn: I think its 6 in France NobleHelium: i can't believe that
the french are trying to turn the weekend into 3 days
i don't see how they can have 6 days of school Lewwyn: well in the past at least
they did like 2 hour lunch breaks
or 2-4 hour lunch breaks even NobleHelium: my psychology professor made a joke once
about how the french are trying to have a 32-hour week
but the chinese are trying to have a 32-hour day Lewwyn: lol NobleHelium: er not psychjology
philosophy Lewwyn: so the thing is the PH could be a trap or it could be a reward gamble NobleHelium: i never took psych
well like i said
if we move to the ph
and see nothing
we lose 1t Lewwyn: so you are advocating go for it NobleHelium: no Lewwyn: we can always go back if we need to? NobleHelium: i find it very hard to believe that plako and novice Lewwyn: oh 1 turn is too inefficent
right I forgot NobleHelium: no it's not that
would want people to gamble on the start like that
too swingy Lewwyn: yeah but then NobleHelium: the main thing is
according to that screenshot Lewwyn: doesn't it make sense that they'd make it less swing by placing a food up there NobleHelium: there is forest
all around Lewwyn: in case we went for the PH NobleHelium: look at the fog Lewwyn: deer? NobleHelium: there is forest all around that tile Lewwyn: deer would be awesome NobleHelium: is plains deer a normal generated tile Gaspar: I think deer only shows up in tundra normally Lewwyn: mnnn
thats not truw
it can spawn on plains or grass as long as its north or south enough Gaspar: i dont play enough normal games to tell honestly
anymore at least Lewwyn: tndra just happens to cover most of the north and south ususally
well are we saying we have 2 choices then?
either PH or SE NobleHelium: no
SIP is definitely a choice
if we go SE
and i doubt w ewill
it would only be for a warrior into worker whip build
which ends up being 1t slower than a straight SIP build
well Lewwyn: could find a PH SE somewhere NobleHelium: if we go 1E Gaspar: SE looks more viable than the PH NobleHelium: we might be able
to do same speed worker Gaspar: there could definitely be something in the fog down there, even if its coast NobleHelium: with the whip
wait no we cant
because not enough tech tor esearch bw sooner
that's true
there could be seafood Lewwyn: meh Gaspar: though natually generated maps
tend to have a lot of coast without seafood NobleHelium: say we moved SE
and there is no seafood
would you have preferred SIP Lewwyn: do we know theres even coast NobleHelium: no we don't
i'm just guessing there might be based upon the fog in the corner
where the river is Gaspar: there is a ton of forest NobleHelium: yes that is the undisputable fact of this start :P Gaspar: we could chop ourselves off to a really fast start Lewwyn: chop workers Gaspar: or bag like 2 wonders
mackoti would tell us to save them for wonders NobleHelium: well Gaspar: instinctively i think workers and then whip settlers NobleHelium: we could go say 2worker-settler Gaspar: thats what i did in 24 iirc NobleHelium: you should check
so lewwyn you haven't commented
would you want to delay the worker by 1t
in order to get a warrior right after
you're prob going to say no Lewwyn: mnnnn
thats valuable
I'll say yes NobleHelium: sorry
i'm wrong
SIP + straight worker
is eot7
so 2t sooner
what do you say to that
2t later worker Gaspar: Totals @T20: 1 Settler, 2 Warriors, 2 workers, 1 worker @29/40, Capital @ size 2 w/13/16 in food box Lewwyn: hmmm Gaspar: thats from 24 NobleHelium: the other thing we gain is the corn is closer to the cap
so we could start farming it immediately Gaspar: 24 obviously had a much better cap NobleHelium: i was looking for your build order
not what you had built
well
chopping second worker looks annoying
Lewwyn has left NobleHelium: because bw isn't in until the turn after the worker gets to the firest
unless we do the whip Gaspar: yeah
Lewwyn has joined Gaspar: worker, worker, interweaving warrior with settler was build order Lewwyn: k
thats with sip and straight build
? Gaspar: thats from 24 NobleHelium: no that was 24 Lewwyn: ok NobleHelium: did you chop the second worker
or what Gaspar: yeah
problem here
is going worker-worker Lewwyn: the corn is 2 tiles away Gaspar: is really only valuable
if we intend to go crazy chopping worker/settlers
because theres not that many good tiles
and we obviously want cottages not farms at the capital no matter what economy we run
this cap reminds me of 14 Lewwyn: boo Gaspar: i hated that cap
it was okay
but definitely nothing special
that had rice instead of corn NobleHelium: we are too spoiled
i'm fine with this cap Gaspar: wines instead of silk Lewwyn: and you were stuck with it NobleHelium: although i hate ph sheep Gaspar: and the sheep were flatland Lewwyn: forever
because you didn't build settlers
lol NobleHelium: /facepalm Gaspar: yeah how do you feel that i played the worst open ever
and still beat you? Lewwyn: lol
serdoaaaaaaaa Gaspar: lol
hey diplo is a gameskill too
which is why im glad its fucking off these days Lewwyn: yeah NobleHelium: it's a skill of the game
known as civ4 with diplo Lewwyn: I've gotten better at it
diplo that is NobleHelium: which is different from the game we are trying to play sir Lewwyn: marginally Gaspar: i have no interest in real diplo
i have no interest in AI diplo for that matter
but i dont mind not AW NobleHelium: its ok Gaspar: i just hope we have neither dave nor commodore as a neighbor NobleHelium: we're not on the sending morse code stage of ai diplo yet Gaspar: bleh
i really dont want to SIP
but its pretty clearly the best move Lewwyn: nuuuuu NobleHelium: well
moving SE
loses only 1t on the worker really
because we farm the corn sooner
but i think i prefer to keep the sheep Gaspar: yeah but while corn first ring is good
we lose the sheep for probably nothing
and while its not a great tile
its something Lewwyn: I say boo sip Gaspar: lol Lewwyn: I'd prefer PH>SE>sip Gaspar: whats irritating NobleHelium: lewwyn would prefer PH and have no food except ph sheep i bet :P Gaspar: is theres no way to get any decent info from the war to inform this decision Lewwyn: exactly
thats the point XD NobleHelium: that's why
i'm pretty sure
SIP is the best we're going to get Lewwyn: its okay
Its not a trap! Gaspar: this is actually your fault noble
i don't know why you like plako maps so much
this is my 3rd time
3 shitty capitals
26 is the worst of all time, of course Lewwyn: lol
settle on the FP! Gaspar: that cap was so bad i basically stopped playing that game NobleHelium: lol
check my post in tech thread Lewwyn: terrrible NobleHelium: BEST IDEA EVER
17's capital was fine
seven wasn't going to make a map for us Gaspar: thats a great idea
an even better idea NobleHelium: and krill is definitely not going to make a map for us Gaspar: IS NO MORE PLAKO CAPITALS
well krill is in full tantrum mode NobleHelium: anyway next time we can play with some other mapmaker
but commodore isn't any better Lewwyn: lol at Krill Gaspar: wasn't saying he was
but im sick of plako's shitty capitals is all
actually just occurred to me
since we know how novices tool values
we're probably completely fucked on resources
since all these forests cost points NobleHelium: the resource unbalance
was explicitly pointed out
i have more faith in novice than that Gaspar: i dont Lewwyn: lol NobleHelium: why did you agree to this thing then Gaspar: novice is brilliant
but i dont know if hes fair Lewwyn: brilliance can be blinding NobleHelium: anyway i'm not worried about that Lewwyn: theres always shadows you can't see NobleHelium: and there's no point in worrying about it Gaspar: i just hate this start
whine whine whine NobleHelium: it's fine
we're not going to build 3 mines
with 2 workers Gaspar: its not fine Lewwyn: you're gonna sip aren't you NobleHelium: and not research agriculture Gaspar: we actually
are going to not research agriculture NobleHelium: we researched agriculture before guanyin and the buddha created the world
question is
is novice buddha
or is plako buddha Gaspar: only the buddha knows Lewwyn: so anyway
you guys are voting sip
? Gaspar: i dont think we've made up our mind NobleHelium: i am voting we stare at the fog and move the warrior before we decide anything Gaspar: but yes my inclination is sip NobleHelium: but yeah Gaspar: but i agree
stare, move warrior
then i whine for a while
then i whine some more
then i bitch NobleHelium: then we SIP Gaspar: then we sip Lewwyn: sigh NobleHelium: btw make sure to post this entire thing including the part where you guys call novice an arrogant bastard Gaspar: did I call novice an arrogant bastard?
i don't recall saying that Lewwyn: we said he was brilliant NobleHelium: YOU SORTA DID Gaspar: i like novice Lewwyn: me too NobleHelium: also
we can do ellimist's GOTO thing
to check for coast NobleHelium: where you use the elevation of the goto numbers Gaspar: i like how you capitalized goto NobleHelium: to check for elevation Gaspar: as though you're writing code NobleHelium: i've never written basic fear not Lewwyn: gaspar, he has to capitalize goto
its an order Gaspar: lol NobleHelium: 10 STRANGLE GASPAR
20 GOTO 10 Gaspar: well
I have really high dex so i dodged you
and you do no damage anyway Lewwyn: lol
tell him he has weak womanly hands NobleHelium: my hands are quite small
but very nimble Gaspar: lmao NobleHelium: well it's true Gaspar: i have big hands
not nimble NobleHelium: that's why Gaspar: good for choking a bitch NobleHelium: your dex is actually VERY LOW Lewwyn: :D Gaspar: pfft Lewwyn: you mean his hand dex is
not his body dex Gaspar: shoulda rolled barb NobleHelium: diablo 4
will be played with hand gestures Lewwyn: lol Gaspar: i make a mean shadow puppet Lewwyn: shadow puppets?
teah
yeah NobleHelium: i was thinking more like black & white spell gestures but okay Gaspar: i'd rather settle somewhere in act 2 than this shitty start Lewwyn: black & white was a cool idea NobleHelium: yeah cool idea Lewwyn: but I never thought it was excuted well enough NobleHelium: execution was rather lacking Gaspar: never played black & white
<-- pc game deficient boy NobleHelium: well you cast spells
by moving your mouse in certain shapes Gaspar: that is retarded NobleHelium: this was way before the iphone Lewwyn: they had that thing where your pet would learn to do stuff based on what music was playing Gaspar: thats even more retarded Lewwyn: but I think it was broken
my pet just ate my villagers Gaspar: you know whats even worse Lewwyn: which was cool Gaspar: THIS START NobleHelium: what was broken was that bug where your pet swapped alignment on the last level :P Lewwyn: lol NobleHelium: but yes Gaspar: also broken, PH sheep being your 2nd best tile NobleHelium: you also trained your pet
like you train a dog
so if he does something you don't want him to do
you punish him
act 2 is terribad though
that's like your 26 cap without the floodplains Gaspar: WHY ARE YOU TWO NOT OVERCOME BY DESPAIR ABOUT THIS START LIKE I AM NobleHelium: because i know everyone else has a similar start Gaspar: DESPAIR, BRETHREN Lewwyn: technically my name isn't on the thread Gaspar: pfft Lewwyn: NobleHelium: did i just say that Gaspar: Dave probably has like 3x grass pigs NobleHelium: it's true that our combo makes equally bad starts probably worse for us
but you picked the combo
so i do not feel guilty for that :P Gaspar: well Lewwyn: lul Gaspar: what would you have rather chosen NobleHelium: I WOULD RATHER HAVE DONE A DAMN SNAKE PICK Gaspar: well
my idea filled up in like 6 hours
so you can blow me NobleHelium: well what you do is
you post the idea
and then you go SURPRISE we're actually doing a snake pick Lewwyn: lol Gaspar: im sure nobody would have caught on Lewwyn: No one expectes the snake pick inquisition Gaspar: lol im going to crack open the t0 save from pbem24
and look wistfully at it NobleHelium: then you will hexedit the 38 save
and change the tiles
and transplant the start from 24
clearly we should have asked bob to make the map Gaspar: lol
mmm ph plant Lewwyn: lol
ph plant! yes
lets do it Gaspar: mm wet corn in 1st ring
mmm oasis
mmm floodplains
forested hill deer how i long for thee
forested hill deer is apparently a conversation killer Lewwyn: mnnnn
well
can't do mych more till the save comes Gaspar: uh
sure we can
WE CAN WHINE Lewwyn: lol NobleHelium: i sent you the really prelim sandbox lewwyn Lewwyn: cool
plako's online
we could whine to him in person NobleHelium: what's his email Lewwyn: plako.plako NobleHelium: i guess plain plako was taken Gaspar: lol Lewwyn: I gotta go work on some stuff, go to my work email NobleHelium: what
you have lewwyn's work email and i don't?! Gaspar: uh
yeah, i knew him before he had an rb email
from WW2
also he likes me better than you because you're a douche
Lewwyn has left NobleHelium: NobleHelium: you whipped the first settler in 24? Gaspar: maybe?
i was noticing i didn't report well right from the get go
are you going to post this log? NobleHelium: i thought you were going to Gaspar: well i was
but then i thought you might
so i decided id ask NobleHelium: i need to sleep soon Gaspar: im going to bed in like 5 minutes
but the chat log will still be there tomorrow NobleHelium: BUT YOU HAVE TOMORROW OFF AND NOTHING TO DO BESIDES STARE AT FOG Gaspar: i can post it
i wasnt saying i wasnt going to NobleHelium: lol
ellimist kept asking me whether i formatted our cahts in 21 Gaspar: this isnt super funny NobleHelium: so he could just get them from me
and i told him i never posted them because i hat ediplo for one Gaspar: lol NobleHelium: i don't think he did search and replace Gaspar: yeah NobleHelium: to do the formatting Gaspar: with Ctrl-H it takes like 30 seconds to format a chat log NobleHelium: if you are super cool
you use a regex editor
so that you can match the timestamps
and format those too Gaspar: i use notepad
Quote:Gaspar: but i agree
stare, move warrior
then i whine for a while
then i whine some more
then i bitch NobleHelium: then we SIP Gaspar: then we sip Lewwyn: sigh
I fought the good fight, and lost.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
Save's in. I don't particularly like any of our combined name monikers, so first thing I did was change our name to Inquisitors Gaspar Noble, similar to our name from 29. Interesting naming scheme still pending.
Here's the settings SS:
Stuff we now know that we didn't before:
Mistkebab did not settle on T0.
This was apparently the 3rd version of the map.
High Sea Level implies lots of water. No islands implies lots of useless water.
Here's the results of tile bleed analysis:
If its not obvious, P = Plains; GL = Grassland; H = Hill; F = Forest. Combinations of those monickers such as GLH = Grassland Hill.
Anyway, most interesting things from this analysis are that we have another PH plant option 2S of the settler and that the Circled tile almost certainly has a hidden resource of some sort as it is covered on all sides by forest. I'll leave this out there, but I thought about this a bit this morning. If I was playing this game SP, I'd move the settler NW and try it and move back and SIP the next turn if there's no food up there. So more and more I think I like that option - there's no reason to play so super cautious. I do think we're in either the north or south of the map based on the pine trees so if we move north there's probably either more plains there which opens wheat or tundra, which opens deer. I'm not 1000% convinced, but its where I'm leaning. I'll wait until others, including my teammate, weigh in to move the warrior or anything else.
I'm kind of in a warmdown period right now but we moved the warrior NW revealing not much and NH is pretty adamant about not moving to the PH so unless the spirit moves me strongly, we'll be SIP shortly.
I must say, my initial 8 reactions to that screenshot were "HOLY CRAP THERE'S GOLD LETS PLANT 1S HOW DID I MISS THAT!!!!"
Then after about 2 minutes I realized there was no way you could know that and it was just an artifact of whatever map you rolled to turn into a sandbox.
The takeaway is there's definitely production potential in the capital. We very rarely see Oracles fall that early these days, so even if we go that route I feel pretty comfortable we can get out to a couple cities pretty quickly first.
I've already procrastinated past Yuri save playing time now, so probably just wait for Nob to get home and take it from there at this point.
). Just post a screenshot of the settings...and I'll get right on it. 
![[Image: settings.jpg]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16500814/PBEM38/settings.jpg)
![[Image: t0a.jpg]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16500814/PBEM38/t0a.jpg)
![[Image: t32oracle.jpg]](http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6240/t32oracle.jpg)
