Thread to abuse Commodore's map balancing skills

[Catwalk]

We might discover more resources for the sugar tile by moving the warrior first, let's not discard that option right away. I suggest moving the scout SW/S and keep moving him in that general direction, using our first warrior to explore our immediate surroundings in a circle.

[Lewwyn]

Settle for deer, scout by hills, warrior NE. Easy Peasy.

Any love for Khmer Ballista elephants? Mining/hunting is less than ideal, but...

[Krill]

Basic rules for picking leader and civ.

India before Inca, Inca doesn't work with EXP/CRE but India does, so the extra flexibility means India is a safer pick, so it can be taken earlier in the snake pick.

Pacal uber alles.

Willem is the fourth safe pick, so one of Willem, Pacal, Inca and India are safe picks if we are 1st through 4th pick.

If we are fifth pick, we go for Synergy: Darius of Sumeria for example, for ideal starting techs, a 45 hammer court house at Priesthood on a Monarch/Toroidal map, and settling for deer means we still get a fairly fast start.

Other option is Rome, Fishing/Mining means we could settle for the fish, maybe taking Ragnar as the leader, but I don't think it's such a great move with these settings.

Huanya of Mali could be a worthwhile option, Oracle>MC is obvious, but starting techs aren't great for food or getting cottages online.

[Krill]

...And we pick last.

I vote for Darius of Sumeria for the lulz.

[Dicorion]

So that means cottage economy.
How about Frederick of Sumeria? I am not sure how are your feelings about specialist economy, but if everyone will pick financial leaders, this may open some space for a different approach?

Just thinking aloud, I am fine with Darius and I actually like Sumeria very much.

[Catwalk]

Darius of Holy Rome! Lets us tech AH right away, so we can improve Deer + Sheep with no delay. Not saying they're great, but they might be offset by the Rathaus. With a 50% cost reduction, Rathaus is a lot more fun than Ziggurat. And we will have a better shot at early religions or Oracle.

*newbie keeping quiet now*

[Lewwyn]

Darius of Sumeria. Sounds like a blast. Let's see if everyone else picks India, Inca, Willem and Pacal first.

[Krill]

Darius of Holy Rome! Lets us tech AH right away, so we can improve Deer + Sheep with no delay. Not saying they're great, but they might be offset by the Rathaus. With a 50% cost reduction, Rathaus is a lot more fun than Ziggurat. And we will have a better shot at early religions or Oracle.

*newbie keeping quiet now*

Wheel and Agri = 170 beakers. Hunting and Myst = 128 beakers. Start 4 turns behind in the tech race. Three techs from cottages and two techs from mines, probably further away from Oracle than with any other tech combo except Hunting/Fishing. Otherwise HRE wouldn't actually be so bad. Advantage of Sumeria is that you don't have to tech CoL, so get Priesthood then research to Currency and you're all set.

Problem with Frederik is the PHI doesn't actually do much at all until you get your first great person, and over the course of the game basically gives you one more golden age OR a couple of GP to use for their effects or bulbs. FIN gives more beakers because it's a better snowball trait, it allows you to expand faster and then gives a higher output.

Also...specialist economies don't exist, the term is completely meaningless.

[Catwalk]

Good point about not needing CoL. How good are vultures, and are pikemen less impressive than they appear at first sight?

[Krill]

You don't really need axes (and hence vultures). Axes have historically been considered the most important ancient era unit (except workers...) but chariots can deal with most things if you have good positioning and are much better at threatening other players. Axes are generally just tile defence units and counter spears.

Vultures do do worse against axes than the base axe, but that's why you use chariots. If someone is threatening to enter you land with a axe/spear stack you want to be using archers for defence to hold hills and funnel the enemy along flatland. But if you are in axe v axe combat you've basically lost the game already so no real reason to worry about that IMO. OTOH, vultures stand up better against archers, LB, HA and as tile defenders (ie on forest they have odds against chariots on defence, unlike axes). You just have to use them differently to vanilla axes, but they don't make the army strictly worse IMO.

Pikes are decent units, but are specifically a counter to mounted units, so the Landsknecht, with it's bonus against melee basically makes them OK stack defenders against maces, and good against ancient era melee units. However, the only time you have pikes and not maces is a straight Engineering beeline, which is just about the worst strategy (except not teching at all) for a small game like this, as you need to keep up with the Liberalism beelines. It's not so bad for large games, but here, probably not the best choice, but that's mostly to do with the techs.