Gaspar and NobleHelium - More Arguments About Buildings & Food.

[Gaspar]

Maybe I'm missing something - but I'm not convinced this question has an obvious answer. Care to elaborate?

No, not really.

[Mardoc]

No, not really.

Well, you're not invading me without some sort of dimensional gate, so that much is reassuring .

[CFCJesterFool]

We'll probably bring spies along rather than sentry chariots

I guess I assumed wrongly that spies were banned. Ya I'd go with spies then.

[Lewwyn]

so... kiki? or yuri?

[NobleHelium]

Neither if Commodore refuses to play his turn.

[Gaspar]

Well, here's an exercise for the lurkers. Who would you hit:

Yuri:

Pros

1. Far weaker target.
   
2. Probably able to conquer him close to whole.
   
3. Probably would like to be out of this game so to some extent doing him a favor.
   
4. Don't need to sacrifice the whole economy for the war machine, just this brief diversion.
   
5. Adding Yuri's land to ours would make us a clear favorite.
   

Cons

1. Doesn't deserve to die, other than in the Darwinian sense.
   
2. His Dotmap is horrendous and we'd have to raze and resettle most of his territory, meaning several settler builds and getting cities off the ground, etc.
   
3. Weakens Commodore border just by necessity of not having those troops engaged with him.
   
4. Yuri is already any afterthought, so his demise doesn't impact the game by itself.
   

Commodore

Pros

1. Absolutely deserves to die for his actions in-game.
   
2. Is engaged with Mist, so the 2-front war could be the opportunity we've been waiting for.
   
3. His territory would be easiest to integrate, and other than Aylee we wouldn't need to raze his cities.
   
4. Is our nearest rival, so anything we take from him has double impact on our chances of winning.
   

Cons

1. No way we could knock him out, best case scenario is probably to take the 3 border cities, most likely scenario is just Kiki.
   
2. He's going to have Rifles in 3-5t so anything beyond Kiki would require a huge stack of CKN.
   
3. Would likely be very bloody, heavy WW, etc.
   
4. If things go badly, Commodore has the ability to counterattack and Cathedral is the only city between him and our capital.
   

[NobleHelium]

I can't agree with yuri pro #5...if that is the case then I don't think this is really worth considering at all.

[Mardoc]

Well, here's an exercise for the lurkers. Who would you hit:

You know me - I'd probably waver, end up building a military that I don't use, sign an ill-advised NAP, and regret it after the game . Perhaps I would declare on Commodore, but not until he had a solid veteran army and Mistabod on the ropes .

As for you guys: I'm honestly not sure if you value winning or 'deserves to die' more at this point. Your summary certainly points toward Yuri, though. Edit: Or did, until Noble disagreed that it was the way to become 'clear favorite'

[pindicator]

I gotta go with Yuri on this. But not a total annihilation -- at least, not yet. Make smart gains and keep your defense solely in mind. Commodore has already whipped himself silly, and it doesn't seem like the action down there is done. Let the two heavy weights knock each other senseless.

Alternatively if you think that war is going to drag a bit, then try to knock-out Yuri quickly so his lands can at least help defend should Commodore turn around and head your way.

[CFCJesterFool]

He's going to have Rifles in 3-5t so anything beyond Kiki would require a huge stack of CKN.

That sucks. Attacking Yuri is pointless...any territory you gain will be lost to Commodore's rifles. You have to attack Commodore if you want to have a chance of winning. He can only tech to rifles if he can keep his cities. Mist has the fast mover stack so strategically, Commodore can't empty his cities to defend against a second front. You have 12 cats. Don't worry about bombarding defenses. Sack 3 cats per city (or more if need be) and use CKNs to clean up the mess (at winning odds). The key is to start the whip cycle now (1 CKN for every 3 cats produced since cats are cheaper and max collateral is higher). By whip cycle I mean whip every city every 2 turns (so you don't pay whipping penalty for having no hammers into the build). Teching is pointless right now cause Commodore getting rifles (and having the core of his cities) means you lose anyway.