October 18th, 2012, 02:33
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(October 18th, 2012, 02:01)Ellimist Wrote: (October 18th, 2012, 00:48)SevenSpirits Wrote: (October 17th, 2012, 22:19)Sullla Wrote: Forges + OR civic make for an amazing combination.
How so? OR discounts forges so that the return on investment is comparatively better/faster.
OR saves 24 base hammers on a forge, which allows us to whip it earlier in smaller cities. (120/1.25=96) A 2 pop whip can be done with 40% fewer hammers invested(36 vs 60).
+50% vs +25% means we get a bonus on every 2nd hammer, rather than every 4th hammer, so it's easier to avoid seeing the bonus rounded down.
It's pretty self-evident that OR has a synergy with buildings. I guess the forges in this scenario are just playing the role of a useful building? On the flipside though, the 25% bonus of the forge, and 25% bonus of OR, have a bit of anti-synergy with one another, since they only stack additively. (Assuming we have OR, forges further reduce the base hammer cost of buildings by a sixth. If we didn't have OR, they would instead reduce the base hammer cost by a fifth.)
I see the appeal of going for oracle, since tech costs are scaled up quite a bit compared to hammer costs. However, I definitely don't favor going for it yet, at least if we succeed in landing stonehenge. Right now we have the most ideal situation I can conceive of on this map for the profitability of additional population: stonehenge for free culture, half-price granaries, and financial cottages. I don't think the ability to build forges is significant for us, because we can do much better simply by growing more population. (While growing blah blah blah, remember we need to build military too!)
Also (still assuming we get stonehenge) I can't imagine a situation where additional prophet points could be less useful.  (Oh and it's notoriously score-inflating too.)
For the immediate term, I see no value in teching priesthood yet. Why not save at least enough gold to last us through another tech (e.g. writing) first, to preserve flexibility and avoid unnecessary possible known tech bonus disadvantages? I think even people who want us to build the oracle would agree we shouldn't start building it already.
October 18th, 2012, 02:41
(This post was last modified: October 18th, 2012, 02:44 by NobleHelium.)
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MC is really not about forges. Forges are mad expensive. MC is about locking down Colossus which we can build at a leisurely pace in Jesus City (and yes we will need a forge there first, I know). People always talk about how GLH is free commerce, but compare +2c per city from GLH to Colossus on seafood and Moai. If we work ten sea tiles total (easy to do with just a few seafood and a Moai city), that's already five GLH cities' worth of commerce. It's certainly not a godsend wonder in this case, but it's a decent wonder on basically any map that isn't Pitboss 3.
I'd be fine with saving gold a few more turns before turning tech back on, sure. We don't have the work force to build Oracle that soon anyway.
October 18th, 2012, 03:03
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Oh and I think we should keep tech off for now because the only use for Fishing at the moment is working the lake, and I see no situation where we would want to do that.
October 18th, 2012, 04:19
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(October 18th, 2012, 03:03)NobleHelium Wrote: Oh and I think we should keep tech off for now because the only use for Fishing at the moment is working the lake, and I see no situation where we would want to do that.
We will found Jesus City soon enough, and being able to start with a work boat there would be quite valuable, so we will make use of the tech soon enough.
No reason to make things more complicated than they need to be, unless we have reason to do so. Which other techs do you see us getting good use from in the next 10 turns?
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
October 18th, 2012, 04:20
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If you are only getting +2c per coastal city from GLH, that's not very impressive, but also you're doing it wrong. Even without external trade routes, getting some offshore cities means you should be getting +4c, and with open borders it can even be more. In any case, this looks like a bad map for GLH so far. And also for Colossus.
October 18th, 2012, 04:27
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(October 18th, 2012, 04:19)kjn Wrote: No reason to make things more complicated than they need to be, unless we have reason to do so. Which other techs do you see us getting good use from in the next 10 turns?
None! We don't need any techs right now. Hence it being reasonable to turn off research for a couple turns.
The benefits are: 1) We give less known tech bonus to opponents. 2) We get more known tech bonus from opponents. 3) We can change our tech path for free.
The drawbacks are: 1) Maybe we are idiots and have miscalculated things. 2) Maybe we will literally forget to turn tech back on.
I like the benefits and I'm unconcerned about the drawbacks.
October 18th, 2012, 04:34
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(October 18th, 2012, 04:27)SevenSpirits Wrote: None! We don't need any techs right now. Hence it being reasonable to turn off research for a couple turns.
The benefits are: 1) We give less known tech bonus to opponents. 2) We get more known tech bonus from opponents. 3) We can change our tech path for free.
We will need Fishing T56-58 or so when we settle Jesus City. The only civ we have contact with right now are CFC, and there is hardly any other team out there with enough GNP to take advantage of the known tech bonus - instead they will only get a malus on overflow.
Once we see a library in AO on the horizon it might be an idea to stockpile gold for a while, but right now, no.
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
October 18th, 2012, 05:02
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We have to start clouding the issue re our lead and if not finishing fishing until we actually need it helps with that, then I support turning research off.
Do we have a map of our next brace of techs? Is it a run to Monarchy? We can calculate how much gold we would need for that run and work to saving that amount.
I have finally decided to put down some cash and register a website. It is www.ruffhi.com. Now I remain free to move the hosting options without having to change the name of the site.
(October 22nd, 2014, 10:52)Caledorn Wrote: And ruff is officially banned from playing in my games as a reward for ruining my big surprise by posting silly and correct theories in the PB18 tech thread.
October 18th, 2012, 05:48
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If we're worried about being perceived as too far ahead then saving cash doesn't do much to help. When we run 100% science turn after turn that will look as bad in the GNP category as anything we might do to our score by just researching the techs now. I know binary research is best because of efficieny + flexibility, but as an alternative could we run a 50% research / tax slider for now while there are no modifier buildings to skew our most efficient slider setting? I believe we don't lose beakers to rounding at 0 / 50 / 100% slider thresholds. Correct me if that is wrong, but 50% would give us efficiency even if we are trading flexibility for a lower display of GNP potential for anyone who may be watching F9 closely.
October 18th, 2012, 07:15
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I am also in favour of managing the techs in a way that they fall at the latest possible moment (i.e. Fishing one turn before Fish city will be settled). Idea being to mask our lead somewhat. Sure our GNP will still reveal our strong lead, but GNP is not necessarily assigned to us, if other C&D departments are not on the ball and the only civ that can see our graphs is CFC.
Stockpiled gold is always good. Emergency upgrades for example.
mh
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