RB metagame has moved away from Oracle for the most part, so I'd probably say ~t60 for most games these days and maybe t66 at the latest. Earlier games it would have been closer to t52. If we get Stonehenge and nobody has gotten Buddhism, I would feel quite good about landing Oracle.
I think you sims should include some scouts to explore the south. (by that i mean axemen, not actual scouts).
It would be nice to know where city #6 is going by the time the settler is built.
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
Could the difference in research speed come from a different founding date of 4th and 5th city? I imagine the added maintenance will have a noticeable impact on the gold/beakers.
mh
"You have been struck down!" - Tales of Dwarf Fortress
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"moby_harmless seeks thee not. It is thou, thou, that madly seekest him!"
For the record, I tried a run where we revolted to hinduism this turn, on the grounds that this would be the time to dismiss it as a possibility. Consider it dismissed. While there is a bit of benefit from letting our workers get 1 turn in front of our current city production, I don't believe it's worth the cost. (1. Maybe we will have a good opportunity to revolt to a religion in a golden age, so we shouldn't do it now. 2. Delaying oracle a turn is dangerous and unnecessary.)
Okay, here's an archive with the save stack of the sim. I made some modifications to the one pictured above.
Some points:
1. If we keep exploring northeast with the spear, we'll have to keep the new axe in FP for MP, because the warrior in the sim will be in the northwest near Jesus City. This means we won't be able to send the axe to the southwest as it is in the sim, so we can't explore that area for another city location.
2. The worker in Jesus City will overflow into a work boat that will be able to explore southwest for several turns before it needs to net the clam.
3. The desert hill 2E of the gold is actually a quite good city location, but the unfortunate part is that we'd need Iron Working at the least for it, and likely Calendar as well. So unless we tech those after Currency, we'll probably have to settle in the south next and thus need to explore at least a bit there. Or we could tech Sailing and get a galley and settle the possible island in the west.
4. We should strongly consider converting to Hinduism when the next settler after clam is in motion (after Oracle finishes). I feel very constrained by happiness in AO, MM, and FP. Naturally, AO may not get a spread so it may not help there. But with one additional happy at MM and FP we could work a lot more cottages and still work 1-2 priests in MM. Remember that anarchy turns cost less on normal speed.
Turn runthrough. I realize this does not follow the standard microplan format but I have a hard time putting things into that format, sorry. If a worker is not mentioned then it does the same thing it was doing the previous turn.
t55: MM works two food + gold + priest, starts worker. Apple finishes riverside plains cottage, FP works it with its new 3rd citizen. Other two workers start riverside grass cottage south of that. D worker goes NW onto the grass forest hill 2NW of AO. Priesthood finishes EOT.
t56: AO whips settler, work corn and flood plainses. MM takes the riverside plains cottage from FP and works that instead of the priest. FP takes vacated grass hamlet from AO and works it. Send Apple towards forest 2W of AO. D worker starts roading grass forest hill. Start tech on Writing, science to 0%.
t57: AO builds 1t granary. Coriander moves NE and starts a dry grass cottage south of MM. Broad Beans heads toward the forest north of AO's corn. Settler moves into position to settle Jesus City next turn. Science to 100%.
t58: Settler settles Jesus City, starts work boat, takes corn from AO. AO takes deer from MM, MM works priest instead. Apple starts chopping the forest 2W of AO. D worker starts chopping 2NW of AO. AO dumps hammers into Oracle. FP works riverside grass cottage with its new 4th citizen.
t59: Broad Beans starts chopping the forest north of AO's corn. FP starts a new axeman. Writing finishes EOT.
t60: Two chops finish the work boat in Jesus City. AO switches to a library. MM works the new dry grass cottage south of it instead of the priest. Start tech on Mathematics, science to 0%.
t61: Apple and D worker start a cottage on the tile SE of Jesus City. Chop finishes granary in Jesus City. Jesus City works newly netted fish, AO takes the corn back and works corn + riverside plains hamlet + flood plainses. MM takes the deer and gives the dry grass cottage to FP, which FP works with its new 5th citizen. MM starts Oracle. Coriander moves 1E and starts a road SE of MM. E worker out of MM moves NW and starts riverside plains cottage.
t62: Jesus City takes the corn back from AO, AO works flood plainses + riverside plains hamlet + riverside grass cottage + newly completed dry grass cottage. Broad Beans moves 39 and finishes road 2N of AO. Jesus City starts new work boat (could be substituted for a unit if we want hammers available for an emergency whip). Science to 100% on Mathematics.
t63: Apple and D worker move 1S and start another dry grass cottage SW of the lake. Broad Beans moves NE and starts a pasture on the cow. E worker moves 2NW and helps finish the riverside plains cottage, which MM works with its new 5th citizen. FP swaps to a settler.
t64: FP swaps back to axeman. Broad Beans puts a second turn into the pasture and cancels. Coriander moves 1N onto the grass forest. E worker moves 339 onto the plains forest.
t65: Apple moves 1E and starts road SW of AO. D worker moves 1S onto the plains hill 2SW of AO. Broad Beans moves 1E onto riverside plains forest. Coriander moves 1t into a cottage on the grass forest and cancels. E worker moves 1t into a road on the plains forest and cancels. MM swaps to worker, FP whips settler, works pig + copper + riverside grass cottage. AO takes riverside grass hamlet from FP and works that instead of the dry grass cottage 2W of AO, which is given to Jesus City to be worked with its new 3rd citizen.
t66: AO works dry grass cottage SW of the lake with its new 6th citizen. D worker starts road on plains hill. Broad Beans, Coriander, and E worker all start chopping. MM swaps back to Oracle works dry grass cottage instead of riverside plains cottage, so that it grows to size 6 at EOT. Settler out of FP moves 471.
t67: MM whips worker, works corn + gold + riverside plains hamlet + riverside plains cottage. AO takes the deer and works that instead of the dry grass cottage, which is given to Jesus City to work with its new 4th citizen. Jesus City swaps to worker. FP starts a new axeman. Settler moves to Clam City site. Apple moves 13 along the new road and starts a cottage on the flood plains 2E of the Clam City site. Mathematics finishes at EOT.
t68: Chops finish Oracle in MM. Jesus City whips worker, works both food. Clam City is settled and starts a granary. D worker moves SE and helps cottage the flood plains. FP works the dry grass cottage with its new 4th citizen. Rest is up in the air, but I have it set as AO swapping to a settler (swaps back to grow to 7 before whipping, but we could put hammers into the settler for another 2-3 turns to overflow into the library), and the new F worker can do whatever.
Yeah, I realize that was much more verbose than the standard format, but my brain works much better going through things each turn.
I love how quickly Jesus City gets set up In these plans! Do you plan on whipping out the second workboat for clam city? If so, when will it be able to arrive? This could be far in the future of course, since we have all those cottageable floodplains we could work instead, but it would be nice to set up Clam City as fast as Jesus City.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
The clam work boat finishes on t69 in Jesus City from the worker whip overflow. This is several turns before we'll get culture over the clam, even with an immediate religion spread.
Hey, apparently we got a forest spread over the currently planned clam city site in-game. I don't think that changes anything but it's something to consider.
(October 24th, 2012, 02:42)NobleHelium Wrote: Hey, apparently we got a forest spread over the currently planned clam city site in-game. I don't think that changes anything but it's something to consider.
Are you sure? I thought that was just an error in the sim.
