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Poll: Map K1 (ss shown) or K5 (Krill's new one)
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K1
0%
0 0%
K5
81.25%
13 81.25%
Either
18.75%
3 18.75%
Total 16 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

 
Pitboss 8

No, but from the sound of it he edited it less than you edited the current one. From my understanding, he just kept rolling maps until one looked fun and playable, which is reasonable.
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(October 27th, 2012, 16:48)scooter Wrote: No, but from the sound of it he edited it less than you edited the current one. From my understanding, he just kept rolling maps until one looked fun and playable, which is reasonable.

My opinion is that rerolling is editing smile.

But maybe I'm just on a different page than you guys. Which is fine, I'm really not attached to the map I did. Hard to get attached to something you didn't put much time into
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker

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Some of you may THINK you had good starts with the old map. Almost everyone had a resource-flooded capital. But when you start looking at expansion prospects, they're just bad.

The new map isn't equitable either (it's a random map with minimal editing!), but at least everyone should have an interesting position to play.
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(October 27th, 2012, 17:32)SevenSpirits Wrote: Some of you may THINK you had good starts with the old map. Almost everyone had a resource-flooded capital. But when you start looking at expansion prospects, they're just bad.

The new map isn't equitable either (it's a random map with minimal editing!), but at least everyone should have an interesting position to play.

all right, well I liked our capital <G>, but if this means not having to quit 100 turns in because the winner is already quite obvious, then I'm all for trusting 7 and Krill here.
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
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When can we expect the new screenshots?
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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I see no way this can't turn into a cluster. As scooter pointed out, since everyone's seen their screenshots, it's hard (impossible) to be impartial. Someone that thinks they have a good start would be much less interested in taking a new map. And since the voting / this thread is public, it's hard to push too hard for keeping it if you have a good start.

Definitely agree that the K5 map is more "fair" - as Krill pointed out there were some starts (1 in particular) on the K1 map that was really boxed in, expansion-wise.

Nevertheless, I would suggest a few pointers for the next time we do this

1) No screenshots in the threads till the map is 100% (or at least 95%) decided on

2) If you want a natural map with no / little editing, then you need to be more clear on what is wanted. Almost to the point of instructions you'd give a spoiled lurker covering for you while you're out of town. Scooter later on said something about editing a 3f to a 4t tile that you would just turn a plains cow into a grass, or irrigate a dry rice, rather than putting down new food resources. That was not stated initially. Similarly on strategic or luxury resources that need to be added- there was one case where we needed to add one, but then comes the question okay well WHICH one to add. I suggested to Mardoc to roll a random number which seemed fair but perhaps that should be spelled out.

3) The decision was made to not post the WBSave in the lurker thread. I disagree with that and think that it absolutely should be posted for everyone to review.

Anyway my 2 cents...

Oh and 4) never volunteer to roll a map lol
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Point about 3), I trust about 3 other people to be able to read a map, and after PB4 I think listening to most people about map balance at all is a bad idea. And that is without the additional constraints imposed.

1+2 though...no disagreement form me.
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23

Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6:  PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
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(October 27th, 2012, 19:04)Krill Wrote: Point about 3), I trust about 3 other people to be able to read a map, and after PB4 I think listening to most people about map balance at all is a bad idea. And that is without the additional constraints imposed.

1+2 though...no disagreement form me.

I understand and don't necessarily disagree. But if that's your opinion, then you either need to just wash your hands of the whole process, or just do it yourself lol
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Discussed with Brick:

Quote:me: Controversy!
Sent at 4:07 PM on Saturday
Brick: mmhmm
dont care, wanna play

me: 'xactly.
kk, gogogo gl hf.

Expanding that a bit, I think I might very well be one of those unplayables. If so...well, mostest with the leastest award? I'm voting:
Fine with K1 or K5
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
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To keep everything open and as controversial as possible, I have finished with the map. It has been vetted by Seven and forwarded to novice. And rego has looked at it. Once novice has checked it (on Sunday morning hopefully) the starting screenshots will be posted and the map forwarded to sunrise to host, and you can all publicly villify me without fearing for your starts quality.
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23

Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6:  PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
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