November 6th, 2012, 08:45
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(November 6th, 2012, 07:26)mostly_harmless Wrote: And I recommend, that people who voice their opinion or suggest different courses of actions get not reprimanded because they don't have the skill and /or time to file a detailed MM plan.
Very much this. Obviously, some people are putting *way* more effort into this game than others. Sometimes, though, you can be too busy chopping down the trees to see the forest.
Any micro plan I could come up with is guaranteed to be worse than the ones Seven and novice cook up. But I don't think people should be discouraged from expressing their opinions, or this thread will just turn into an echo chamber where alternative views are never considered. Since this is a diplo game, winning is at least as much dependent on making friends (or at least not making enemies) as on playing the perfect game of civ.
The micro planning is essentially the tactical level, and I'm perfectly willing for the skilled players to run things tactically without my interference. On the strategic level, you start to deal with personalities and emotional reactions which can't be boiled down to a spreadsheet. I think an open debate of the team's strategic goals is the whole point of this game, and would increase our chances of winning.
November 6th, 2012, 09:39
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Here is an option ... the best scouters are 2-movers. We don't have access to any at the moment, so we have to scout with 1-movers (axe or spear is all we can currently build).
But wait - we do have 2-movers. We have workers and we can build scouts. Workers don't make the best scouts (too easily lost) but 2 scouts working together can safely de-fog a bunch of tiles by continually covering each others backs (leap frog style).
I have finally decided to put down some cash and register a website. It is www.ruffhi.com. Now I remain free to move the hosting options without having to change the name of the site.
(October 22nd, 2014, 10:52)Caledorn Wrote: And ruff is officially banned from playing in my games as a reward for ruining my big surprise by posting silly and correct theories in the PB18 tech thread.
November 6th, 2012, 10:01
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I don't think our scouting has really been functionally deficient, so that's my main issue with the "scout more!" comments. So if we would've seen a nice city far to our southwest... so what? Would we have settled it by now? Definitely not - we have plenty of good city sites in our first ring that we've been settling, so we haven't hurt at all as a result of lack of scouting. From an opponent perspective, yes we haven't met everyone, but thanks to CFC we've been able to figure out roughly where everyone is in relation to us, so we're not lacking on opponent info in that respect.
After Oracle and our next couple cities are settled, lack of scouting information will start to be a problem... But from what I can tell, we'll have scouted further by then so we should be fine.
Agree that you shouldn't have to post a detailed microplan to provide suggestions, but the issue here is you should be able to demonstrate/argue how lack of scouting is hurting us more than slowing down Oracle by a turn or two to squeeze out a couple scouting units. That's definitely not something you can justify at the moment IMO, but if someone can do it, then we have a conversation. (but yes, let's be careful about not scolding people for providing input, rather let's help them understand how to provide useful input)
November 6th, 2012, 10:17
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(November 6th, 2012, 10:01)scooter Wrote: I don't think our scouting has really been functionally deficient, so that's my main issue with the "scout more!" comments. So if we would've seen a nice city far to our southwest... so what? Would we have settled it by now? Definitely not - we have plenty of good city sites in our first ring that we've been settling, so we haven't hurt at all as a result of lack of scouting. "far to our southwest"? From the picture I posted it is clear that we have not even scouted our potential first ring in the south west, while already talking to settle an almost-all-jungle city in the 2nd ring.
(November 6th, 2012, 10:01)scooter Wrote: After Oracle and our next couple cities are settled, lack of scouting information will start to be a problem... But from what I can tell, we'll have scouted further by then so we should be fine. We are currently planning to settle the gems city in around 10 turns if I read the discussions correctly. The only scouting asset we have in place by then would be the axe MP for Clam City. Depending on the barb situation we should be ok with that unit defogging a lot of the tiles down there.
mh
November 6th, 2012, 10:27
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I really think what we need here is someone here willing to step up and do some planning and drive for scouting and reconnaissance. Most of the major contributors here are primarily builders, and while we can do a decent job at other types of Civ, having someone on the core team who pushes military and scouting would be a good thing.
Ie, we need a Speaker.
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
November 6th, 2012, 10:54
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Uh...there isn't exactly a lot of planning needed for scouting. We've already talked about what to scout when the opportunity arises, it's really not that hard. We will head southwest with the free work boat which will defog more of the island and the shoreline there, and the axe around the clam city can scout south/southwest a bit and then swing east.
November 6th, 2012, 11:01
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We're fine people. As I count it we have 3 city sites we want to settle right now and there's no chance we'll settle all three before we scout some more. And we do have scouting units being built and moving. Let's have a little less heat here. Both sides have valid points about the necessity of what they want, but I don't think anyone's being excluded in opinion here. Relax. Don't do it. Relax. 
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
November 6th, 2012, 11:06
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I liked Ruff's suggestion of building a scout (or two). It's a cheap 2-mover that can get scouting done... In the south there's a lot of flat land so one can be careful but just one-moving if necessary... When to do that, it's tricky, but the Oracle plan is definitely first priority.
Regarding diplo with Germans for the gems, here's what I had in mind. I didn't mean for us to ask for permission, but rather to maybe ask them not to settle with the gems in the first ring if we notice they could do that. For example, we could have a unit in the area to check for that (if we can afford it). So, we'd settle first, ask them not to do it, if they seem like they may do it. It would be very aggressive on their side to do that and I don't think they would want to annoy us.
Kalin
November 6th, 2012, 11:13
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If we settle the gems city, we will probably need to make some concession to the Germans - maybe offer spices and some gpt in a long-term deal or with a symbolic return on their part (maybe a health resource).
I really think the Germans is one of the teams that we should cultivate as long-term allies.
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
November 6th, 2012, 11:33
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(November 6th, 2012, 11:13)kjn Wrote: If we settle the gems city, we will probably need to make some concession to the Germans - maybe offer spices and some gpt in a long-term deal or with a symbolic return on their part (maybe a health resource).
I really think the Germans is one of the teams that we should cultivate as long-term allies.
I would do that if they say something about our city, or in exchange for them "leaving" us the gems. Also just gifting spices should be a reasonable exchange. That city is pretty close to us.
Kalin
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