AW-like Pitboss?

[SevenSpirits]

I would like to try another random AW pitboss game like PB7. But PB7 had terrible double-move problems. In fact, double-move problems have not yet been solved in simultaneous games, though the RBMod PBs have come closer just by having players use common sense.

But, there is a way we could do it, that I think could work out interestingly and simply. I posted about it before here, but let me start afresh:

Each player is stuck in either the first or second half of the turn timer. Players in opposite halves of the timer are in always war. Players on the same half are in always peace (either AI diplo, or no interaction allowed at all, whatever we prefer). No one has to worry about anything except moving in their own half of the turn. Now here's the thing: I'm about 90% sure we can do this painlessly with a mod. It will be like a simultaneous team turns game where anyone can log in, but only half the players can perform real actions (like unit moves) at a time. The other players can still look around, queue up orders, and stuff like that.

One other thing that might make this more interesting is the ability to switch turn halves. I would want this to be a difficult thing, and one that you have to plan ahead to accomplish. One possibility which I think I like is to add a first-to-research bonus to some (for the most part, undesirable) techs: if you are the first player to get this tech, you immediately switch which half of the turn you are on. So if you end up totally boxed in by someone you are stuck at peace with, you can try to go for one of these techs to break out. For example, techs that give this bonus could be: Alphabet, Compass, Divine Right, Gunpowder, Scientific Method, Fission, Satellites, Stealth.

Most important question right now is: does anyone find this appealing? Or is it too "out there"?

[Qgqqqqq]

I really dont think this will work.
Sorry SS

Still, good luck to anyone willing to give it a whirl.

[Old Harry]

I have no idea if it would work or not. As T-Hawk said in the previous thread being in the second half of the timer will be an advantage; if you get mostly A players going for the techs so they move to the second half then the remaining A's could be at more and more of a disadvantage as they get more enemies...

I also imagine that mounting an attack against someone, giving them a good bloody nose then declaring a peace that they can't break for a very long time would be fun!

[novice]

The switching sides mechanic seems too exploitable. I'm not sure the metagame would be fun.

[Krill]

You'd also have to find a way to host two mod games at the same time.

[zakalwe]

I think something like that sounds playable, if you just take out the side-switching capability and use a map like an inland sea, with players on alternating sides as you go around the inland sea. Thus, each player would be at war with both neighbors, and also (less relevantly) with some more distant players.

[AutomatedTeller]

So, I don't really understand why just saying "don't do something you know you can't do in SP" doesn't work, but then, I haven't played a pitboss since the old fanatics demo game.

I think I understand the idea, but I think it's a little unweildy - makes it complicated to finish the game and makes it very difficult to dogpile the leader if everyone is in the same time.

But if you can mod it so you can flip halves... why not mod it so you can lock people into a half during a war?

[SevenSpirits]

So, I don't really understand why just saying "don't do something you know you can't do in SP" doesn't work, but then, I haven't played a pitboss since the old fanatics demo game.

* In single player, you move and then the AIs move. In MP, who gets to go first? If you set it at time of war declaration based on past ordering, you are basically punishing people for not being able to play ASAP after the turn rolls.
* The goal is to not double-move someone. But sometimes you don't know if you are doing it, if you can't see their unit but they can see yours.
* If you were really intent on eliminating double moves, you'd play sequential. But most double moves are irrelevant. If I build 2t of a farm halfway around the world from your warrior, who cares? There is a continuum from this indifference to double moves which actually matter, and the point at which you should have waited for the other player to go first is unclear. For example, suppose we are at war and you are airship-scouting me every turn to see if I am moving any workers west. I might make two consecutive moves with my worker since I don't see any of your units in the area, and therefore bypass your airship's area of vision. In single player you would have been guaranteed to see my worker, but here you didn't.
* It's not always obvious whether an enemy unit has already moved this turn. Forcing people to pay incredibly close attention to enemy movements to avoid double-moving them is onerous and also has a high failure rate that leads to reloads.

I think I understand the idea, but I think it's a little unweildy - makes it complicated to finish the game and makes it very difficult to dogpile the leader if everyone is in the same time.

We've run an always peace game that actually finished. It's games that devolve into pure military action at the end that are often called early. So the affect on the endgame seems like a positive to me.

But if you can mod it so you can flip halves... why not mod it so you can lock people into a half during a war?

That's what this is, except with always war enabled for as many pairs of people as possible.

[Cyneheard]

We've run an always peace game that actually finished. It's games that devolve into pure military action at the end that are often called early. So the affect on the endgame seems like a positive to me.

That game wasn't particularly close; it hadn't been in serious doubt for 50-75t. But Scooter and I had functioning empires, so we could still achieve some goals:
- Lewwyn won
- I built a one-engine ship in the minimum time possible; better micro would've gotten me 2 engines, although likely in 1t above minimum, saving 1t overall. Largest 1t build in RB MP history, I believe.
- Scooter flipped several Nakor cities.

[Lewwyn]

I'll tell you what, the idea is intriguing. Think if you go REXing against one of your AP opponents and then they grab a tech that flips them and suddenly its all war and you're stuck with a wide border of poorly defended cities? That's an intriguing thought. Also interesting is the idea of TRs that have been in play for half the game suddenly being disrupted for the second half the game and so on. If nothing else it completely changes up the dynamic of the game.