New FFH/EITB PBEM?

[Qgqqqqq]

The mapmakee doesn't need to move units...just build worker/research agri. - the initial warrior can just forties in place

[NobleHelium]

Nobody is going to give up their ability to scout and move units during Stasis turns.

[Ellimist]

If banning stasis alone is controversial, then I guess I'd prefer to ban the Illians entirely.

[Serdoa]

You could try having the mapmaker play out the game for 10(?) turns as illian (with the players instructions) and only then give the save to the first player.

I would not play as Illians if I am forced to use Stasis at Turn 0. The same if Stasis is completely banned. Though I also don't think Stasis is overpowered. It might not be very fun, but it is certainly nothing banworthy. Players just don't know how to react to it being in play, thats all.

Same goes for Tower victory imo. Thats not as easily done as it sounds, especially if you don't go crazy with NAPs. And if you do hand out NAPs till T150+ and don't have a plan to win in that timeframe, it is your fault, not that of a too easy victory condition. Worst though is that by taking away certain victory conditions you sway the game in a direction that makes certain picks less viable. Tower is banned, culture takes too long, Altar... so, what is left? Dom and Conquest.

Of course it is your game, so feel free to ignore my post

[Mardoc]

It might not be very fun, but it is certainly nothing banworthy.

We must have very different definitions of banworthy - because not fun seems like the platonic ideal of banworthy to me . We ban OP stuff not because it's OP, but because it makes the game not fun.

I think I agree that Stasis isn't OP, or if it is, a lot of other stuff that's unbanned is OP too. But that doesn't really matter to me because it's not fun. I'd be willing to allow it in a game where I could count on a blitz session during Stasis, I think, but the RB community is too dispersed for that to be likely, IMO.

Same goes for Tower victory imo. Thats not as easily done as it sounds, especially if you don't go crazy with NAPs. And if you do hand out NAPs till T150+ and don't have a plan to win in that timeframe, it is your fault, not that of a too easy victory condition. Worst though is that by taking away certain victory conditions you sway the game in a direction that makes certain picks less viable. Tower is banned, culture takes too long, Altar... so, what is left? Dom and Conquest.

Well, fundamentally I just don't want the game to end on T130-150, I want it to last a bit longer. Dom and Conquest are made harder by the request for a big buildery map - but a big buildery map helps make Tower victories easier. Also, I want enough mana to play mage games with; usually mana is more generous on hand-built maps, which has the side effect of making Tower easier. I like Ellimist's idea of delaying it to Omnicience but leaving it legal, though. That way there's at least one expensive tech that has to be hand researched.

On the Hyborem question, I mostly want him available so that there's Hell terrain at some point. It's a soft nerf to AV. I'd be ok with making him required AI, honestly, just don't want Infernal Pact to be only good things.

Also, I think I change my vote to no huts. Yell0w's got a point about lairs being a sufficient reward for exploration.

[HidingKneel]

Yeah, and with stasis baned no one will pick them. If we want to keep Illians in the pool (as a viable pick) we should get them some buff if we ban stasis. I however have no interest in picking Illians whatsoever.

By my count, the Illians have been picked four times on RB. The first three times, Stasis was allowed. Two of those were unrestricted leader games. The fourth was in the pitboss, where the agnostic penalty is not quite so painful, and even there they were the twelfth civ chosen. Presumably Stasis is banned because it's annoying, not because it's overpowered (only one Illian victory so far, in an unrestricted leader game with Stasis allowed).

But it is probably silly to argue about this, especially if there is no one who wants to play as Auric (I know I don't).

[Selrahc]

I kind of want to play as Auric.

Just back from holidays. I'll have a look through the settings discussion and put in preferences tomorrow. Too frazzled tonight.

[Mardoc]

Just back from holidays. I'll have a look through the settings discussion and put in preferences tomorrow. Too frazzled tonight.

Welcome back! No rush, no one really wants to start immediately. Yell0w specifically said he wants the earliest we start to be the 10th, which still leaves plenty of time for settings debate and Merovech to make a map. And I doubt anyone would mind if it stretches a little further out.

I kind of want to play as Auric.

Dang, now we're going to have to put a value on Stasis

Unless you'd be willing to play him with neither Stasis nor a compensation?

[Qgqqqqq]

What is wrong with the equivalent of stasis at T0?
Its better then No World Spell (which could be considered an option...) JUST for the Illians.

Ignoring that, I'd say stasis is roughly worth 1 worker + 1 tech + 5 culture.

[Yell0w]

You could try having the mapmaker play out the game for 10(?) turns as illian (with the players instructions) and only then give the save to the first player.

I would not play as Illians if I am forced to use Stasis at Turn 0. The same if Stasis is completely banned. Though I also don't think Stasis is overpowered. It might not be very fun, but it is certainly nothing banworthy. Players just don't know how to react to it being in play, thats all.

I feel the same way.

Same goes for Tower victory imo. Thats not as easily done as it sounds, especially if you don't go crazy with NAPs. And if you do hand out NAPs till T150+ and don't have a plan to win in that timeframe, it is your fault, not that of a too easy victory condition. Worst though is that by taking away certain victory conditions you sway the game in a direction that makes certain picks less viable. Tower is banned, culture takes too long, Altar... so, what is left? Dom and Conquest.

Of course it is your game, so feel free to ignore my post

Hugely dependent on the map. 4-5 mana nodes are needed, if you have diplo 3-4 should be enough. If there are enough mana nodes I think it is - by a margin - the easiest victory condition.

Also, I think I change my vote to no huts. Yell0w's got a point about lairs being a sufficient reward for exploration.

[imagine a speech]