Relations with CivPlayers

[Ceiliazul]

The more I think about it from CivPlayers, there's really nohing to say except "that city just has to go." The problem is that an NAP doesn't help us. They can settle up on us (likely in a way that doesn't destroy their dotmap) and culturally crush that city. An NAP needs to include no settling the FP area, and needs to last until Feudalism.

What could we possibly offer them to make up for the loss of a crazy strong FP/wine/stone city? Not sure.

Here's a treasonous thought: is there any situation where we peacefully reliquish the city for a forever resource-gift?

[NobleHelium]

Well, we could just attack them. Our Axe is just outside Tlaxcala. Do we know if they have horse?

[Ceiliazul]

If we attack them we must beeline feudalism or commit extraordinary forces to BbB...

But it is an option.

Edit: if we attack, we still need the Southern lake city. If CivPlayers is to be our Blood Enemy, that lake must be protected.

[novice]

If our initial greeting goes badly we can declare, move in with the axe, and then offer peace in exchange for a NAP. OTOH, if they don't jump at an offer for a NAP immediately, that probably means they don't fear our axe and can defend against it.

[NobleHelium]

I don't really see a lot of value in a NAP unless it includes an agreement that they won't settle closer to BB and/or it's a very long NAP.

[kalin]

I was reading the comments and I don't quite agree with several of them.

I think we are in a position of strength so even though our city BbB is a bit exposed I think that we can defend it: cheap walls (ferrying some troops across the lake), we can tech archery etc.

Here's what I have in mind: let's try to negotiate a deal where... they let us raze their white dot city to place our own city in the initial planned spot. We could offer them a settler and other things like say a spice or gem... We get our dot map, they get a stable border etc. If not I would seriously consider aggression. It is my impression that they would suffer more than us in a war, but a closer look at the situation is needed to fully evaluate if it's worth.

Kalin

[scooter]

Tricky part may be getting them to respond quickly. I've got a draft up in the diplo thread, but once we send it, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a couple days to get a response.

Then again, seeing an axe at their city defended by 1 warrior may get them talking.

edit: crossposted with kalin

[NobleHelium]

Yeah my general thoughts are like kalin's. But I didn't think they would actually agree to that.

[kalin]

Yeah my general thoughts are like kalin's. But I didn't think they would actually agree to that.

I don't think they would agree with that, but it's better for us to start negotiation from that position. Of course, we'll need to carefully word our messages as it can easily backfire.

@scooter: I was wondering if it may be better to wait a bit before sending something and wait for them to initiate contact... It gives us more time to discuss and with our axe threatening their city they are not in that good a position.

Kalin

[Old Harry]

Can we get a long NAP with them before they spot Brick By Brick? They haven't seen it yet have they?

Scooters email sounds good, I don't think hinting at an attack straight away would be the right tone, but waiting for them to contact us as Kalin says might be mean they suggest the NAP up front?

From a strategic point of view if we can get a long NAP I'd:
- rush to settle somewhere NW of BbB to give it support
- rush to settle on the plains hill 5S of BbB to stop them settling the lake (although if they do they are in far more danger than we are IMHO)
I don't know from a micro point of view how doable that is though...