WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[flugauto]

flug_auto

"No lynch"ers are my personal pet peeve in mafia/ww.

Azza, I hope this will help to change your mind.

Who said there is any villains? Maybe we all are nice guys and there is no need to lynch nobody.

Its hard being a newbie wolf... I really don't want to lynch you first day, but you're so scummy.

BrickAstrley, Lewwyn, Novice and/or Pindicator are the enemies of the Empress's crown. Trust me, I know this kind, been once myself.

flug_auto, have you played mafia/werewolf before? Let me tell you how this reads.
1. You start by voting for nobody to be lynched. You realize this will lead to a village loss? The only way we can kill wolves is by lynching them.
2. Revenge vote + following up with saying we're all nice guys, nobody's suspicious. By not sharing suspicions or even random votes you deny the other villagers information. Going back later and analyzing how various players voted and who they suspected is one of the key methods for catching scum.
3. After catching heat for your opening, you come back with 4 random names, and the reasoning "trust me". This reads like
a) Somebody explained the errors of your previous play to you (in the wolf thread)
b) You've already started distancing yourself from your scum buddies since you've caught some heat.

So, care to explain what's going on?

The first part about the nice guys and no lynch came from the story. "Heroes would be summoned from other worlds to help solve the problem and bring whatever was in the Vault safely under control." The story sets the goal to get whatever is in the vault, there's nothing about mafia/werewolves/villains in the story.

The second part is I believe the 4 named are villains (whoever they are in the story) and you start to panic already.

[Gaspar]

Uber is big on fair. A scum Meiz could have asked uber - what is town told they're hunting and uber would answer that. The fact that Meiz puts it out there feels townish, the fact that he wanted to make sure he got credit for it seems scummy. All in all, null. My vote is on him because I sensed frustration/panic in his reaction and its way too early for a talented player like Meiz to feel that way. Bottom line, its the scummiest tell I've seen from an established player.

I felt the exchanges between flug and Gaius were pretty scummy on both ends as well but mindful of the Ryan and Q show from last game I decided to ignore it and look again later once we have more of a baseline for their actions.

Zak - I dunno what you want me to tell you. It was a half-assed post, I admit that. Got caught in the meta crossfire and engaged in it for no good reason. Do I know better? Of course. But I think the Gaspar knows everything meme is long dead. If anything, that should be a town tell for you - I'm far less likely to just spew nonsense in the thread when I'm scum.

[Meiz]

I think you're right about one thing, that Meiz is being slightly dishonest here. Looks to me like he did indeed bring up those town tells because he was being pressured and wanted to bounce back. I'm not sure if that is scummy, but that's how I read it. "I had to bring it up now or it would no longer be valid" doesn't make much sense. It makes sense if he wanted to make sure he got credit for it, though.

Like I said earlier, I saw no disadvantage. I tell what I thought as town tells, others can make their own minds. I also hopefully give a slight town tell of myself, if it gets people to not vote me, then great. Anyone making similar posts later would have had time to think things through and decide on a gambit, I'd personally at least would be in doubt if it's a tactical scum play or not. So did not see reasons to keep that tell hidden.

[zakalwe]

@Gaspar. I don't see wanting to get credit for your tells as a scum trait. Did you think that was my view? I don't see panicking as a very reliable scum tell, either. And I'm not waiting for you to say anything in particular, I just haven't found a better place for my vote. For some reason it's always very easy to read your posts as scummy. (They're all so nice and fluffy. ) So it's hard to resist the temptation to lynch you, particularly on day one.

[Serdoa]

Meiz, that is a pretty bad reasoning. If anyone making similar posts later on would have had time to think things through and decide on a gambit, what exactly is the reason we should not believe that this is what you did? Imo if you did perceived that as town tells, you tell it. I would do the same thing if I had realised it. Thats perfectly fine, no reason to come up with elaborate thought-processes that led you to decide to tell us - I don't expect any townie to think long about telling the others what they perceive as town-tell. And that is why I perceive the reasoning you give as shoddy. Again, as with your Tasunke-unvote, it is not the action itself that I don't like, but the way you try to explain it.

Meiz

[Meiz]

Meiz, that is a pretty bad reasoning. If anyone making similar posts later on would have had time to think things through and decide on a gambit, what exactly is the reason we should not believe that this is what you did? Imo if you did perceived that as town tells, you tell it. I would do the same thing if I had realised it. Thats perfectly fine, no reason to come up with elaborate thought-processes that led you to decide to tell us - I don't expect any townie to think long about telling the others what they perceive as town-tell. And that is why I perceive the reasoning you give as shoddy. Again, as with your Tasunke-unvote, it is not the action itself that I don't like, but the way you try to explain it.

For the first part, I guess no reason. You might see it as a scum ploy by my part, nothing I can do about it. You have such an odd stance on this, what's the harm in trying to explain my thought process openly, when being questioned. If you think the thought process in itself is scummy, then fine. I still don't get what was so bad on me explaining why I'm switching away from Tas.

[Tasunke]

I think Meiz, Flug_auto, and Gaspar all look scummy. But ... I dunno. I feel like Flug_auto is a set-up of some kind. Not sure which. Just doesn't feel right imho. There are about 7 wolves this game right? Hmm, or maybe 2 packs of 4, or 3 packs of (2-3) ... guess it depends on how strong the powers are. I'm not sure. But I feel like this is the perfect recipe for a multi-faction game. Imma gettin paranoid just thinkin a bout it. So I dunno ... its hard to say.

Due to Gaspar's heavy RP, at least early on (go Italiano go!) I'm thinking he is more likely the wolf but .... which wolf? of which pack? Can we get a confirm of how many alignments are in the game? If its mentioned somewhere I apologize, must have just missed it.

Anyways, Meiz seems like a good place for a vote, but I dunno, should we vote Gaspar instead? He'd be a pretty scary wolf imho, while I haven't much experience with a Meiz wolf (at least not that I can remember). Anyways, I think we should hang him high ... Gaspar that is. Cause I don't wanna see a Gaspar wolf let loose. >_>

(maybe we can kill at least one wolf of one of the packs ... or the one big one, or hell, I don't even know >_< )

[Tasunke]

Anyways, I feel like Gaspar is a good place to park my vote. But ... HOLY SHIT!!! THATS RIGHT!

MEIZ WAS THE ONE THAT PLANNED TO KILL ME FOR MY GOLDEN SKIN.

well, fuck it. Guess I'll be voting Meiz then.

[pindicator]

Flug, can you share your reasoning behind why you suspect the people you suspect? It seemed like a confident list so perhaps we can get a better picture of your thought process

7

[GaiusMarius]

After flug's latest post, I'm not sure if his actions are because he's simply new, or scum as well.

The second part is I believe the 4 named are villains (whoever they are in the story) and you start to panic already.

This suggests to me that flug's reasoning was to pressure the 4 named individuals into slipping up. Now, I'm not convinced that's a great explanation for calling 4 seemingly random individuals scum. Flug, is there any specific things that those 4 have done to earn your suspicion? If so, could you share them? If you are town and trying to pressure them, then having concrete examples of their scumminess might help your case.

The first paragraph commenting noncommittally about Meiz, without bringing anything new to the table, is scummy. Seems like he's very conscious about the fact that he's putting Flug up next to Meiz, in the lead.

The vote for Flug in itself is a bit weak, since he could probably get those answers just by asking. (Remains to be seen, of course.). But mostly it's the way that he feels obliged to comment about Meiz that's scummy.

Well, I didn't like Meiz's actions. I said I didn't agree with his read, nor did I think his pressuring of novice would come to anything. I wasn't convinced that this was a scum lean, especially since I thought it would be a risky scum gambit to hope that town wasn't told who they were hunting. Thus, my admittedly non-committal evaluation. Even though I didn't bring anything new to the table, I still wanted to share my thoughts on recent developments; especially since I was calling out flug for not doing so.

As for flug, I thought (and still do) that he has been reluctant to post his thoughts. I believed that he needed the extra pressure to finally share some information.